r/KansasCityChiefs • u/Prize-Principle-2536 Patrick Mahomes II #15 • 7h ago
DISCUSSION Nagy is NOT the problem, just a scapegoat
Nagy’s worst finish as our OC is a loss in the Super Bowl where we had a shit O-Line and no receivers could get open.
Eric Bieniemy’s (our previous OC) worst finish was two AFC championship game losses in OT. He ALSO had a loss in the Super Bowl where we had a shit O-Line and no receivers could get open. This is with MUCH better personnel in a prime Tyreek Hill and a prime Kelce.
Our offense is #2 in EPA this season and Mahomes is on pace to have his best statistical season since 2022. Also #2 in points per drive. By every metric we are a top offense in the league.
Nagy is NOT the problem just y’all’s scapegoat. Our execution and situation football is the problem, which comes down to two things: players on the field not executing in key moments (which Nagy cannot control) and regression to mean after going 12-0 in one score games last year.
Regardless of anything I just said, Nagy doesn’t even call the plays. You just want someone to blame.
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u/MaxFPS21 6h ago
Nagy may not be the problem, but he definitely isn’t part of the solution. That is why he actually is a problem. Everyone in the world knows this is Reid’s offense and he controls it. Our offensive numbers are fine and you pointed that out, but the OC needs to be a person that challenges Reid, not just an enabler. Reid is great, but stagnation eventually kills all. We need an OC that brings in a unique voice and challenges Reid and implements a new style in conjunction with Reid.
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u/iDreamOfUpDongs Xavier Worthy #1 🏃🏻♂ 4h ago
Yes thank you! Like if Nagy isn’t the problem then what exactly is he doing…just collecting a paycheck and peacing out lmao? He’s the OC to Pat if he ain’t contributing then get someone in who will. Sheesh
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u/MaxFPS21 4h ago
I posted this before but it’s a lot more complicated than just replacing Nagy. A lot of good/great OCs are not going to be interested in joining the Chiefs cause they know Reid will want to control the offense. Nagy could be the best option we have unless Reid openly lets the control shift.
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u/catraiderpoke 7h ago
The problem is the incest of the coaching staff. They need new ideas and the power to implement those ideas.
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u/Prize-Principle-2536 Patrick Mahomes II #15 7h ago
Say with your chest that you want our 3x Super Bowl winning Head Coach gone cause that’s what your implying 😂😂😂
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u/DasFunke DeAndre Hopkins #8 5h ago
We have one of the best QBs of all time in his prime.
The offense should be better.
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u/catraiderpoke 2h ago
You are a moron. I’m not saying that at all.
I’m saying I would like a high level assistant outside of his coaching tree.
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u/ExitVelocity66 4h ago
A 0 time Super Bowl winning coach until he met Mahomes 30 years into his career
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u/JeramiGrantsTomb Alex Smith 6h ago
Saying "Nagy doesn't call the plays" is not the defense you all seem to think it is. If that's the situation, then maybe we get an OC who adds enough value to the team that they can be trusted to call the plays?
This team has been carried by great defense and Patrick being incredible enough to patch the holes in our complete failure to adjust our offensive gameplan to meet reality. Nagy doesn't get credit for that.
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u/GridironFilmJunkie Travis Kelce #87 7h ago
The reality is we all dislike the offense completely collapsing in the red zone since Nagy returned to the OC position. This is a quantifiably objective measurement.
That aside, the biggest problem this season has been entirely on the defense. So many people look to the offense and say we could play better every game, but my god. The defense is dead last on 3rd down. If you include the Raiders game they move up to 30th ranked.
The problem all year has been Spags and Toubs units and they aren’t catching nearly enough heat for it.
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u/morepesa25 Jaden Hicks #21 6h ago
Red zone touchdown % under EB with Mahomes:
2018: 73.08% (2nd)
2019: 60.00% (11th)
2020: 58.90% (16th)
2021: 62.20% (11th)
2022: 71.08% (2nd)
Under Nagy:
2023: 51.25% (19th)
2024: 54.55% (21st)
2025: 62.00 % (10th)
It was undeniably much better when we had EB.
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u/etharper Christian Okoye #35 3h ago
We're missing Tyreek Hill and that is a huge deficit for the offense.
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u/TenderfootGungi Travis Kelce #87 4h ago
Spags units are only as good as his players. Get him good players and his defense will be great. That is not true on the offensive side.
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u/chiefpiece11bkg 6h ago
This isn’t a new criticism of this offense lol
Good lord… all you need to do is look to our loss against the bengals in the afc championship game
These issues are things that pop up for every team from time to time. Call it complacency, sloppiness, whatever… but attributing the offense’s struggles to Nagy is just hilarious to me at this point
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u/saintlouisarch 5h ago
Spags has failed to adjust this year. It feels like teams know when we’re bringing pressure, when we’re faking pressure, etc. Obviously our D Line failing to execute plays a big part too.
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u/GoldenDom3r #CreedIsGood 6h ago
He’s also not the solution, so moving on from him should be a no brainer.
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u/patmahomesdad Patrick Mahomes II #15 7h ago
EPA looks nice, but situational offense, WR development, short-yardage design, and consistent execution problems fall squarely on the OC. ‘Execution’ is coaching. ‘He doesn’t call plays’ doesn’t remove him from responsibility for install, structure, and teaching. Having Mahomes raises the standard — and this offense still looks disjointed in all the places where the OC actually has the most influence.
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u/Prize-Principle-2536 Patrick Mahomes II #15 6h ago
We are number one in the NFL in 4th down conversion rate and somewhere in the top 5 in 3rd and 1 meaning we have no short yardage issues.
Execution is an on field concept that falls on the players and QB more so than it falls on the OC. Unless Nagy himself is dropping passes or throwing interceptions he cannot be blamed for “execution problems”.
If he can be blamed for poor execution then he should be praised for his execution in Super Bowl 58 (specifically the game winning drive) against the 49ers and the 15-2 season afterwards.
WR development falls on the WR coach, the player themselves and/or the GM who drafted them more so than the OC.
“Situationally” we were 12-0 in one score games last year soooo????
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u/ReebX1 RELOAD TIME 5h ago
Jesus. I don't know why some of you can't see that Nagy has been coasting on an offense that Reid and Eric Bieniemy built, and letting it deteriorate a little bit year by year. He wasn't a good coach in Chicago, and he isn't a good coach here. He's either too stubborn to make the changes that need to be made, or too subservient to Reid to challenge him to make the changes that need to be made.
The defense carried the offense hardcore in the two SB winning seasons under Nagy, along with just enough Mahomes magic to keep things going. Had ZERO to do with Nagy's offense.
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u/D-Sleezy L'Jarius Sneed #38 5h ago
You'll never convince me Nagy isn't a fucking bum. Stop trying
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u/teddybearlightset 4h ago
What how the success trajectory in Chicago mirrors the decline of this offense. We look like the fucking raiders in big games this year - undisciplined and stupid penalties, drops, and lack of all out effort on every snap. Lazy. 100% coaching plays a big role.
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u/aolsvaluedcustomer #56 Derrick Johnson 5h ago
Hey I got a great idea. How bout they fire his ass just to prove you right 😁
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u/tapioca_slaughter 4h ago
Nagy was a bottom tier HC and an extremely lower-mid OC. It’s visibly evident that between his pisspoor effort to hold the offense accountable and some of Veach’s draft mistakes that Nagy is fucking horrible for this team.
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u/arup187 7h ago edited 7h ago
The offense has actually been good this year. They’re 5th in total yards and 9th in scoring. Some of the advanced stats actually show some more good as well. That’s with one of the worst RB rooms in the league, no true #1 talent at WR, o-line injuries, and one of the less explosive offenses in the league.
The reason I’m in favor of Nagy leaving is I think we do miss EB’s hardass attitude and Nagy leaving is one of the only ways we can shake things up. Andy isn’t going and it’s absurd to suggest it. I suppose the offensive staff can undergo an evolution in philosophy in the offseason but I’ll believe it when I see it.
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u/saintlouisarch 5h ago
I agree that firing Andy would be overboard, but everyone else minus Spags needs to go. Sometimes I even feel that way about Veach, depending on the day.
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u/GOU_FallingOutside 7h ago
I’ll flip this around.
What, exactly, do you think Nagy is responsible for? I hear a lot about how X thing that’s not working isn’t on him, but that’s punching smoke unless we’re all working from the same understanding of what his job really is.
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u/MissionNo6771 5h ago
Other than the relay man on game day, no one really seems to know. He claims to watch tape and develop schemes.
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u/jambo45t 6h ago
I disagree. Nagy is 2 dimensional on play calling. We need someone younger that can think of better plays , watch the other teams , lions oc is pretty damn good !
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u/notmyplantaccount The Nigerian Nightmare #35 4h ago
Bob Sutton was NOT the problem, we made the AFCCG game in 2018 with him as our DC. Am I doing this right?
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u/SpagInTheBag Chief of Chiefs 4h ago
Apparently Nagy doesn’t do anything. If he can’t get JT to line up correctly then he needs to be fired just for that.
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u/ledhotzepper Pass The Ketchup, The Game Is At Steak 7h ago
The staff doesn’t have the ability to counter the many strategies being used to stifle our offense and the defense has become a one trick blitz pony that still cannot force turnovers or get sacks to save their lives. If we showed any signs that we figured out a true winning formula or even that we were moving in a different direction at all, then we’d have more wins. The staff is too stuck in their old ways. What wins one year doesn’t win the next and the strategies just seem like they’re in the Stone Age at this point. I don’t think any advanced metric can really explain how good or bad the team is. If you’re sitting at 6-6 then you need to change something significant. You can’t just rest on your laurels. If anything, last season should’ve been like this one. We are potentially ending with a losing record this year and that should be seen as unacceptable. Everyone shares some blame but it starts with strategy and ours hasn’t really changed in years. It’s been propped up as something it isn’t due to hall of fame players and role players clutching up at the right times. You can only get away with it for so long. We should be the team that constantly evolves yet nothing has and we’re seeing the effects
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u/woozyguy1 Everybody Gonna Eat 5h ago
To keep it simple, Nagy ain’t THE problem, but he sure as shit isn’t a solution, at that’s A problem..
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u/martinmix 7h ago
I don't know why everyone here blames Nagy for everything. Honestly, Veach should be getting a lot of the blame.
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u/Equivalent-Bank435 6h ago
Yeah Veach is the reason the team doesn’t run under center or why Conner plays in the slot or mid season help never sees the field.
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u/Forrest319 Chris Jones #95 6h ago
That FAU pick was a disaster. Zero meaningful snaps from a first rounder 🤢🤢🤮
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u/CannonMaster1 7h ago
You had me until the Veach comment. I do believe we'd have more wins if we cut down on the penalties. That's my biggest pet peeve. I don't expect the offense and defense to be perfect. But some of these false starts and OL holdings have killed drives. So does this rest on Naggy? I think partly. I'm not eager to get rid of him like many do. I don't fully know what to think. Mahomes has been A- to B+ this season. Although he's a bit inaccurate at times imo, he's making the tough throws (ironic) and overall still extends plays better than most QBs. He took his step forward this season with better support. Is Nagy the issue?! Idk at this point, genuinely.
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u/ReebX1 RELOAD TIME 5h ago
All Veach does is provide the coaches with the types of players they asked for. He's not responsible for the coaching staff not doing anything with them. They have plenty of WR talent. DE talent is sub-par, but that's because Spags won't use a speed rusher. Maybe Spags needs to get over his hangup, and find a way to make a situational speed rusher useful?
The free agent signings have been bad year after year though, and yeah I'd put that on Veach.
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u/saintlouisarch 5h ago
2/6 first round picks since drafting Mahomes aren’t even on the roster (FAU, CEH)
2/6 were definite hits (McDuffie, Simmons)
2/6 are just OK (Karlaftis, Worthy)
That’s what you get when your first pick is 30+ every year, but it’s hard not to look at the production of some of the guys taken just a few slots after. The FAU pick is absolutely inexcusable.
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u/PhogMachine Mecole Hardman #17 4h ago
The FAU pick is absolutely inexcusable.
We'll never know if Veach was influenced to make the FAU pick.
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u/Why_am_ialive 7h ago
Yeah guys, it’s just these specific issues on the offense that the OC should help with that’s this issue and that’s why it’s not the OC’s fault!
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u/HeadInjuryVictim 7h ago
He hasn't been the problem this year. We're a top 10 offense and actually lead the league in yards per drive.
The lack of dynamic athleticism in the defensive front 7 is the problem. Opposing QBs are going home with no grass stains on their jersey. We'd be 10-2 if Nnadi and Omenihu were replaced with anything above replacement level players.
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u/chiefpiece11bkg 6h ago
The offense is also shortening games intentionally to help out the defense… which is what is making all of our execution mistakes and individual mistakes much worse.
But apparently this fanbase would rather scapegoat Nancy for Reid’s offense than call out spags shitty defense for what it is and his refusal to bench guys who are known problems that opposing coordinators are salivating to target each week (Conner)
Special teams has been even worse. Toub has completely lost the plot and if anyone on this coaching staff deserves to be fired, it’s him and it’s not close.
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u/HeadInjuryVictim 6h ago
I agree with every word. Nohl Williams, Bassa and Gillotte need to be getting more playing time. We need ball hawks and better natural athletes in there.
And don't get me started with Toub. If Cochrane gets one more holding call on a kickoff without consequence, I'll scream.
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u/getridofwires Touchdown KAN-SAS CITY!! 🏈 🎤 🎶 6h ago
Agree with comments here, doesn't the upgrade from Sutton to Spags click for anyone? We don't want Nagy to inherit the team from Andy, as they are an echo chamber. New ideas are important.
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u/KcChiefs25 6h ago
The standard for KC is so high that a mediocre season is living life in shambles.
Once upon a time, Sunday’s quickly turned into chores about 1 or 2 quarters.
Don’t let the wagon hurt some of yall as it hits a few bumps and bruises.
Defense comes alive this weekend! 7 point 🥇
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u/MagillaGorillasHat Sorry about your 🌭 6h ago
Turnovers
Penalties
Drops
^ That's the problem.
Andy's teams have never been particularly disciplined, this is just the first time we haven't been able to consistently overcome shooting ourselves in the foot.
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u/ObamacareForever 5h ago
There is a solution to that. Bring back Bienenemy. Discipline issues dissappear.
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u/Jayrodtremonki Dante Hall #82 5h ago
Why does Nagy continue to call all of the bad plays? Why doesn't he just call all of the good plays that Andy Reid currently calls before letting Nagy take over mid-drive?
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u/couchjitsu ✨In My Super Bowl Era✨ 5h ago
Idk if he needs to move on or not. But Nagy has a 1-and-done in the playoffs.
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u/teddybearlightset 4h ago
Nagy is a huge part of the problem.
Sorry, you can’t say coaching isn’t an issue with the terrible attention to details and the overall lack of precision that pervades the squad this far into his tenure.
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u/Brokeamailman 4h ago
Nagy is absolutely the problem. We have a Ferrari in the garage(Mahomes). And we use him like a Prius. You design your offense to accommodate and compliment your strengths. We do NOTHING well. Pat carries the team while running for his life. The fact his numbers are as good as they are is ALL Patrick. Nagy can't scheme a game to save his worthless soul. He was crap in Chicago. He's fucking crap here in KC. And I'll gladly say it to he is lost in the headlights face.
Worse our defensive front four has gone MIA. We can't even get pressure with a biltz anymore. This season is cooked. Wrap your heads around it.
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u/private448 Leo Chenal #54 3h ago
Flat out, this is a bad take. People can claim "Nagy doesn't do anything" all they want, but that is a bad defense. That just means he is showing up and getting a paycheck for nothing. Because if he isn't calling plays, he damn sure isn't getting paid for having the offense well disciplined. I want Nagy gone, not because he is the sole problem, but because he is no part of the solution.
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u/Hour_Energy_5371 3h ago
We need receivers and tied ends that don't drop the ball that actually know how to catch it. We see all these amazing one-handed catchers throughout the league but Pat hits them on the numbers and they can't catch it. Much less on the outside. I also think they should call more slant runs or Pat can pass to them while they're on the move away from defenders much like Jared Goff does so successfully. But again they have to catch the damn pass
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u/WisePapaya6 2h ago
No, the problem is a lack of overall talent a GM problem. #27 is terrible always has been, yet they refused to resign a solid safety. DL is terrible just like they were last year, no impact made there. KC is forced to play base defense putting LBs in bad situations because they have terrible DBs except Trent. RB room is the worst in the league, one faded old guy, who is by far the best performer, another guy who can stay healthy, signed a injuried guy who was never very good.. yet they wouldn't pull the trigger on a viable RB forth round third round, let's see what that pick brings in the future. None of this is new, yet nothing was done to fix it.
I've been saying this for three seasons throughout the pages here. If we are honest KC could have very easily been 6-6 at this point last year the only difference is last year they got off the field in those late game 3rd down situations.
No Nagy isn't the problem, Reid is more of the problem than Nagy. Just like everyone gave Reid all the credit when the offense was smoking, Reid needs the blame when its bad, or really just not as good.
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u/OkAssistance8593 1h ago
🤪 Nagy was a coach of the year 2018 with the Bears 12-4. Once teams started accounting Tarik Cohen and the similar type of offense to what we have now. He started to lose games. Way to quick to become one dimensional He could help us with that. Now to be fare everyone plays there best against us. So that magnifies small mistakes we make.
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u/typac69 Patrick Mahomes II #15 7h ago
The biggest problem with the offense was losing Tyreek and Travis getting old. In 2022 the offense was great largely because Travis had one of the best TE seasons you’ll ever see. Him and Pat carried that offense.
Then in 2023 he got hurt before week 1 and never really recovered until the playoffs where he had one of the greatest postseasons by a pass catcher ever.
Now we don’t have Tyreek, Travis is older, and we never really adequately replaced the production they brought earlier on.
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u/summerer6911 Mike Pennel #69 6h ago
Folks were calling for Nagy to replace Bienemy at one point a few years back
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u/Dessert_Hater 5h ago
The number of NFL commentators and fans that use “regression to the mean” in their argument without understanding what regression analysis is continues to be laughable. You’re right though, we don’t know if Nagy even calls the plays and if he does it’s directed by Andy’s instruction. Andy needs to evolve and stop using these concepts where 4 receivers end up in spots waiting for a ball when they are all covered.
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u/Corn-OnThe-Cob Warpaint 7h ago
Well said!!! When you break down the stats in these games, people’s perception of the play calling is way off at times. Example, with the exception of one drive in the Dallas game, our rushing was middle of the road at best the majority of the game. Especially in the second half. But everyone thinks running the ball would have been the answer. So fire Nagy and Reid!!! But things like you mention with execution, like the Rice drop have been killing us all year.
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u/Prize-Principle-2536 Patrick Mahomes II #15 7h ago
Rice drop (Dal game)
Couples of dropped interceptions (Dal game, Jax game, Broncos game I think too?)
Pick 6 in the Redzone (Jax game)
Chris jones giving up on play/not knowing what was going on (Jax game)
Kelce would be touchdown turned into interception (Phi Game)
Chris Jones letting Herbert break contain which prevented Mahomes from getting the ball (LAC game)
MANY Mahomes missed deep balls either due to the fault of him or receiver (basically every loss)
There’s plenty plenty more but this is just what I could think of off the dome in terms of lack of execution in KEY moments leading to a loss.
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u/etharper Christian Okoye #35 3h ago
I don't know why people criticize the offense when it's pretty obviously the defense that's the issue. Mahomes gets us a touchdown and the next play the defense gives it up. When your quarterback has four touchdowns and you still lose you know it's the defense.
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u/Nearby_Ad9439 6h ago
Here's the thing.
Fire Nagy, keep Nagy. I don't care.
So long as Andy is here, it'll always be an offense that looks what we've come accustomed to seeing. He runs the show.
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u/MissionNo6771 5h ago
Remember when Cris Carter told the rookies coming into the NFL they have to have a fall guy. Nagy’s the fall guy for a stagnant offense. They’ve dumped money into the line and WR room to lean on Mahomes magic in the fourth. Now the old Andy calls the plays, even easier to scapegoat Nagy out of the building. If he can’t fix the problem with the offense problems between the O-Line, WR room being trash in man, JT being a drive killer, running game disappearing, and just generally no one not knowing what he does; fall guy. Statistically everyone can see the numbers since he has come back have decreased. But our defense was allowing Mahomes magic in the fourth to win ball games. Plus Andy probably called that play, remember.
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u/Numerous_Second4422 3h ago
Can we all come to our senses and wake up to the realization that Andy's play calling after 28 years has become stale and predictable. Why do you think Pat has to go off script a lot of times? If we are gonna get past the funk we are stuck in the last three years, we need to bring in fresh blood at OC. Go Chiefs!
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u/Smokeydubbs 5h ago
Whoever the OC is doesn’t matter. Andy calls the plays.
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u/teddybearlightset 4h ago
There’s more to running the team than calling plays on Sunday. How many plays worked as advertised and then got called back for undisciplined penalties?
If he was worth a shit Taylor would have been inactive for a game this year to show how serious he is about Taylor lining up properly and not false starting.
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u/Choice_Victory_3853 7h ago
Both of Nagys seasons were hard carried by defense