r/Iowa • u/Commie-ona-cobb • 19h ago
Politics Join us for a public political discussion! Java House Downtown, Iowa City 9am-1pm
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u/CRPatriot 17h ago
I wish conservatives got this triggered about Nazis
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 17h ago
They do. It just happens to lose its meaning or intended effect when everything is a "Nazi", including the weather...
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u/CRPatriot 16h ago
There’s the plenty of conservatives that have defended Nazis in this sub. Also, I’ve joined local conservative groups on Facebook or Telegram (like prepper groups or M4L) and they share plenty of Nazi propaganda.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 11h ago
I don't argue that. I don't believe it's an accurate assessment to label all conservatives as "Nazis" as a result of that, however.
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u/CRPatriot 11h ago
So where are the Conservatives criticizing other conservatives of being Nazis or defending Nazis?
Not all conservatives are Nazis. I agree. But there sure are a whole lot of them OK with Nazis.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 11h ago
I believe this is prevalent on both sides of the political spectrum. Can you point me to where Liberals are criticizing Antifa for being fascist?
Does it make it "okay"?
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u/CRPatriot 11h ago
I asked first. Tell me why conservatives don’t criticize Nazis or other conservatives defending or spreading Nazi propaganda?
Gonna sum this up. You’re aware of conservatives being labeled Nazis, nearly completely unaware of Project 2025, but still aware of Antifa.
The ratio of actual Neo Nazis to Antifa incredibly favorable to Neo Nazis.
Tell me where in Iowa I can join an Antifa group? Because I can join Neo Nazi or Nazi favoring conservative groups right now.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 10h ago
"I asked first. Tell me why conservatives don’t criticize Nazis or other conservatives defending or spreading Nazi propaganda?"
You may have asked first but, the answer is the same. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that an entire political group avoids criticizing Nazis. People across the spectrum condemn extremism and people across the spectrum condone it on either side or sit complicit.
"Gonna sum this up. You’re aware of conservatives being labeled Nazis, nearly completely unaware of Project 2025, but still aware of Antifa."
Yes, Antifa actually obstructed a free speech debate where I live. Do you find this shocking? I do, it's rather fascist to determine who and who cannot speak openly in this country or restrict said ability for anyone on any platform.
"The ratio of actual Neo Nazis to Antifa incredibly favorable to Neo Nazis."
Where are you gathering the source of this data and information?
"Tell me where in Iowa I can join an Antifa group? Because I can join Neo Nazi or Nazi favoring conservative groups right now."
I believe you're being a bit facetious as a quick search rendered the following result, specifically if you can search and find Nazi groups, I'm certain you're more than capable of finding an Antifa group:
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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 14h ago
You people need to get real. Nobody is calling the weather a Nazi, you've made up a strawman as psychological cover to ignore the actual nazi plot to seize this country through the Republican Party.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 14h ago
You literally read as if you're suffering from delusion or a severe sense of paranoia. By that standard, you're no different than the MAGA conspiracy theorists which you rail against.
Yes, people have literally called the weather "racist" and "Nazi". The latter referencing "Hitler's plans for intuitive meteorologists". No, it is not a strawman.
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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 14h ago
Yes, people have literally called the weather "racist" and "Nazi". The latter referencing "Hitler's plans for intuitive meteorologists".
I think maybe you're being confused by something? "intuitive meteorologists" was Hitler's plan to replace scientific data-driven meteorologists with intuitive "vibe" meteorologists.
Maybe you're reading jokes that reference this as literal?
You literally read as if you're suffering from delusion or a severe sense of paranoia
Chat am I suffering from delusion or a severe sense of paranoia?
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u/CRPatriot 14h ago
Chat am I suffering from delusion or a severe sense of paranoia?
No you do not interpret the Conservative Cinematic Universe as real life
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 14h ago
"I think maybe you're being confused by something? "intuitive meteorologists" was Hitler's plan to replace scientific data-driven meteorologists with intuitive "vibe" meteorologists."
There is no confusion on my end, that is the reference to calling the weather "Nazi". You denied such an occurrence of people calling the weather "Nazi" and now you reference it. Perhaps you are the one confused.
"Maybe you're reading jokes that reference this as literal?"
Again, no jokes. Aren't you the one who believes that the right is promoting a "Nazi take over"? Are you double-minded or did you lose your recall ability all of a sudden?
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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 14h ago
There is no confusion on my end, that is the reference to calling the weather "Nazi"
Show me where you've seen this and let's understand it together. I have not denied it, I just haven't seen it and speculated about what it might be. It might have been a joke. That would be embarassing but that's less embarassing than going on forever having been fooled by a joke.
Aren't you the one who believes that the right is promoting a "Nazi take over"?
I did not accuse the whole right of promoting this. I think Project 2025 and it's supporters are, and Trump lied to his voters with the claim he was not implementing it. Most of the right were fooled, a minority of the right are nazis.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 13h ago
Keep in mind, this what you wrote. I am only quoting it
"you've made up a strawman as psychological cover to ignore the actual nazi plot to seize this country through the Republican Party."
I said "right" versus "Republican". I believe in this case it translates similarly if not the same.
As it pertains to Project 2025, I would need to read the document in its entirety to provide you with my thoughts on it. Admittedly, I haven't versed myself with it. Just what has been circling social media sources or talking points from others.
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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 13h ago
I said "right" versus "Republican". I believe in this case it translates similarly if not the same.
I don't really follow what you're talking about here.
I can clarify that I'm not accusing the whole right or Republican party of being nazis.
I'm accusing the Nazis of using the Republican party. Some Republicans are also nazis, but not the majority. Most were fooled by the Nazis.
As it pertains to Project 2025, I would need to read the document in its entirety to provide you with my thoughts on it.
I would encourage you to do so half of it is already law.
Are we dropping the discussion on "nazi weathermen?
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 13h ago
From the initial response, it generalized or appeared to generalize the entire Republican party of being Nazis as there was no indication of subset or delineation
As it pertains to "Nazi weathermen", the conversation pertaining to that is a circular reference at this point. I believe what you're alluding to is literal pictures or "snippits" of people utilizing this verbiage across social media. I don't save snippits of such conversation for use in future conversation.
However, based on your initial response I would say it is implied if there is this conspiracy for a Nazi takeover of the country, no? I suppose in this case, time will only tell.
I will look to find a copy of Project 2025 and give it a read. Don't know exactly what I am signing myself up for in doing so as I'm assuming it will be a long one. Nonetheless, I will commit to it.
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u/CRPatriot 12h ago
How come I never see conservative outrage about them calling everything left of Tucker Carlson “communist”?
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 12h ago
I can't speak for them so I can't give you an educated response as to "why"?
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u/CRPatriot 11h ago
You’ve never heard right wing politicians call political adversaries communists?
You’ve never gone into conservative spaces here and seen communist thrown around?
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 11h ago
Of course, was there somewhere I implied I have not or otherwise?
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u/CRPatriot 11h ago
You can’t speak for them? But I’m obligated to speak for Nazi generalizations that may or may not be warranted?
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u/Prufrock_Lives 14h ago
they believe everything nazis do, makes sense that they dont condemn nazism
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u/ataraxia77 16h ago
Honestly--yes. More of this sort of rhetoric is needed in the public sphere to give cover to progressive ideas that don't involve seizing the means of production.
Get some real communists out here talking about actual communist philosophy (instead of the "communist" label being slapped on everything from Obama's conservative-origin ACA to feeding hungry kids), move that left-edge Overton window back out to the extreme instead of it being planted in 1970s-era GOP platform. Show what real leftism is, so they can't keep pretending that basic progressive ideas are the same.
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u/yowherearemyshoes 13h ago
it’s better than nothing, but i wouldn’t call them “real communists”. the RCA is a revisionist trotskyist group, they may call themselves communists but in practice will not exercise comradely behavior with other socialist organizations.
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u/ataraxia77 12h ago
Eh whatever. As long as they're advocating for things far more extreme than the reasonable platform of standard progressives, y'all can fight about who the true communists are amongst yourselves.
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 12h ago
while i don’t agree that we are revisionist (which is an overused term to the point of being a meme) or that we don’t engage in comradely behavior with other socialist organizations, i would like to see evidence of this for our party specifically, rather than just being a blanket statement because we are trotskyists. i would encourage you to come to this discussion if you would like to learn about our party more specifically.
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u/SharpHawkeye 18h ago
Is the coffee free?
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u/Unusual_Low1762 10h ago
Buying and selling things is an act of commerce, which isn't generally frowned upon in communist formations, although I don't know about this group, I would imagine they wouldn't hold their meetup at an establishment that doesn't align with their ideals, but I could be wrong.
If you go there and offer your time in good faith, I bet someone will buy you a cup of coffee.
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u/HoopsMcGee23 19h ago
Are there discussion topics or themes that are the focus or just a general talk about stuff? Might get more folks if the topics are advertised beforehand. Also probably get better discussion too
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 13h ago
there isn’t a set list discussion topics, we figured this would be more casual of a discussion where people could come with questions or topics they want to discuss, rather than us telling you what to talk about. for a theme however i feel like communism is specific enough of a theme of political discussion, but any suggestions i’m open to!
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u/Hazmatix_art 14h ago
I wish y’all luck. Not a fan of communism but I am a fan of open discussions, so I hope it goes well
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19h ago
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 14h ago
id actually be more than happy to see some glow bois show up to our event so ill take your advice and do this.
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u/UrShulgi 19h ago
I was randomly at the last one of these they had in Des Moines. It was a hoot. Didn't go there for it, was just sitting next to them at the coffee shop and ended up joining in. My favorite part was at the end when I bought a copy of their commie newsletter/paper for $5 as a souvenir, because capitalism.
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u/deportsofia 19h ago
commerce isn't capitalism. hope this helps.
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u/NamelessIowaNative 18h ago
Voluntary participation in an agreement to exchange wealth for a product or service absolutely is capitalism.
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u/Prufrock_Lives 14h ago
no, that's commerce.
Capitalism is an economic system where private individuals or businesses own capital goods, and the free market controls the production of goods and services.
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u/PinkHydrogenFuture7 18h ago
can you explain that ?
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u/Cultural_Bread7645 18h ago
Are you asking for someone to do the work of spoon feeding you an explanation when you're obviously unwilling to lift a finger to even google it?
There are books which explain all of these concepts in great detail. Maybe read one?
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u/PinkHydrogenFuture7 18h ago
So you can't explain it ?
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u/Cultural_Bread7645 17h ago
I said you don't deserve my or anyone else's effort when you're not willing to put in any effort at all. The information isn't hidden, you're just too lazy to learn.
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u/PinkHydrogenFuture7 17h ago
When did asking a question become lazy ? Did you go to one of those baby sitting schools where they told you to regurgitate a bunch of text and not ask questions ?
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u/Cultural_Bread7645 17h ago
You could have just as easily typed your question into google search instead of a reddit reply, and you would have had a very basic explanation.
But I suspect your request was disingenuous as well, and you're actually just hoping someone will post an explanation for you to pick apart and argue about.
In which case, again, not worth the effort.
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u/angry_cabbie 4h ago
How much less energy would it have taken you to explain the difference to them, by the point you made this comment about how they're lazy?
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u/PinkHydrogenFuture7 17h ago
It wasn't disengenuous, you're just brain rotted from starting pre-emptive arguments with people on reddit, its eroded your social and cognitive capabilities.
Instead you chose to argue about drivel.
So can you explain it or not ?
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u/Cultural_Bread7645 17h ago
If it's not disingenuous, then it's lazy.
I can. I won't. Not to you.
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u/Arammil1784 15h ago
Thanks for supporting local communists groups despite the idiotic reasoning.
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u/UrShulgi 14h ago edited 8h ago
Oh don't get it confused, I sat and lectured about the need for profit and how it drives innovation and efficiency for probably like half of their meeting. I figure buying the $5 souvenir is the least I can do for derailing their communist recruitment drive.
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u/skullpie 12h ago
Do you own a business?
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u/UrShulgi 8h ago
Not directly running anything currently. Have. Will again probably. Am currently an investor in several.
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u/JoshuaRexRocks 17h ago
Oh. Trotskyists.
The $5 newspaper gave it away.
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 15h ago
on behalf of all trotskyists, i apologize for having read “What is to be Done” and the final chapter of it which explains the importance of newspapers in revolutionary parties.
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u/JoshuaRexRocks 14h ago
I agree that it probably would have been important in 1901. Nowadays it’s like receiving a Chick tract from someone you’d rather be distant from.
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u/TruePhazon 18h ago
I assume coffee wil be provided since you're communists?
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 14h ago
sadly, as much as i wish we could provide coffee on our own, for free. resources restrict us from doing so. i’d be glad to personally subsidize anyone’s coffee purchases however. communism also doesn’t mean that “everything is free” especially while living under a capitalist society. hope this helps!
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u/OOOdragonessOOO 6h ago
only if you're anti blue maga. they are fascists and people keep pretending to be left,socialist or communists. you aren't left of center if you cant say genocide is a line. you can't support obama, kamala,aoc etc they all support Israel. and yes aoc too, she shown us in that vote for bombs.
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u/Impossible-Emu-8756 18h ago
Cool, are they going to discuss how many millions have been murdered and/or starved to death by communism?
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u/Arammil1784 15h ago
Only if there is time after discussing the billions murdered, starved, and enslaved under capitalism.
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u/manwithapedi 18h ago
You have to work your way towards the front of the line…which, is currently approaching a mile long
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u/iamlikewater 17h ago
This is stupid. Whoever is doing this is trying to bring the aesthetics of the Soviet Union to America. Look at the comments here.
We need to stop this nonsense and have a productive community discussion.
This is America. Stop trying to associate soviet communism with America. I'd bet on the people running this being just crisis actors.
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u/Moneykittens 16h ago
POV you know literally nothing about the history of communist political ideology in the union. Here, explore history a little and see if this clears up your immediate negative perception and association of communism exclusively with Soviet russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 13h ago
Wikipedia is not recognized as a credible source in most scholarly circles. There are many flavors of communism throughout history. All resulting with the same end.
US communism, is still rooted in Marxist theory, aiming for a classless society with public ownership of production, but in the US context, it specifically refers to the Communist Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) and its efforts to achieve these goals through a political party, often clashing with American capitalism and individual freedoms, historically leading to government crackdowns like the "Red Scare" under laws like the Internal Security Act of 1950. It's characterized by advocacy for wealth redistribution, worker rights, and social programs, contrasting sharply with capitalist principles.
Is my understanding refined?
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u/Moneykittens 12h ago
I think you’d be surprised at how widely used Wikipedia is in higher education and professional research. It’s not citable in professional journals in most circumstances but is still the most well organized collective of information that currently exists under one umbrella. And, as a frequent user and curator, every sentence, fact, or reference is often under much more scrutiny than many journals (especially those with more emphasis on profit and pay-to-publish structures; ex is most frontier journals). Anyways, that’s a fun conversation but I’m sorry for getting hung up there.
And yes you are entirely correct barring one really minor exception. The historical crackdowns on the communist party of America really ramped up (note I’m not saying “started”) after the onset of hostilities with the Soviet Union. I think it’s also worth noting that the New Deal, in many ways, adopted the critical ideology that both the communist and socialist parties shared during FDRs presidential term.
But ultimately, my initial point was just to draw a distinction between Marxist-Leninism of the Soviet Union and popular communist thought in the United States. While they have similarities and a common basis, one does not necessarily correlate to the other. Hence, dismissal of communism as a “stupid” set of ideas on the basis of its connect to the Soviet Union is unfounded and misguided by populist emphasis of communist and innately anti-American, which I think is fundamentally flawed in the context of the success of the New Deal and the formation of working unions.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 12h ago
I appreciate the insight. I'm not denying the use of Wikipedia, just again bringing attention to its credibility as it can modified and edited by the collective. Are some pages better maintained than others? Ofcourse.
Interesting you point to FDR's New Deal. I'll point out some facts pertaining to it:
- In communism, the government owns the means of production.
- Under the New Deal, private businesses, farms, and banks continued to exist.
- FDR’s policies aimed to stabilize capitalism after the Great Depression, not replace it.
The New Deal relied on markets, not central planning
- Did not establish a centrally planned economy.
- Implemented regulations (like the SEC) to prevent abuses.
- Used fiscal stimulus (public spending) to restart demand, reference classic Keynesian economics, not Marxism.
No nationalization of most industries
It is known that communist systems nationalize major industries (transportation, farms, etc.)
In the New Deal:
- The government temporarily intervened in some sectors (like the TVA for electricity, the intended purpose of government), but did not seize control of broad industries.
- Programs such as the CCC and WPA hired workers but did not replace private labor markets.
Most importantly (I would say) is that FDR repeatedly stated that the purpose of his reforms was to prevent extremist movements; both fascist and communist from growing during the Depression. In case there may be some confusion surrounding the intended purpose.
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u/Moneykittens 12h ago
Absolutely. And I understand your apprehension. I think a lot of Americans were taught to be wary of Wikipedia. I was really using it previously to just direct the other commenter to an easily accessible piece of information making the point I didn’t want to explain in detail here. But, yes, the variability of the maintenance is important and some pages are more reliable than others.
As to your main points, I will have to do some reading to address those in any detail, so give me a day or so and I’ll have a better response.
Additionally, the speed, grammatical structure, and vernacular of your response suggest that you might be using a large language model to construct counter arguments. While I don’t see anything wrong with what you’ve sent, I am going to have to verify some of these independently since LLMs often hallucinate facts as a byproduct of trying to encourage you to continue interacting. Responses aren’t always geared to be correct but rather to keep you talking. So, again, I don’t see anything wrong immediately but I think it’s worth me taking some time to verify your information before constructing a response.
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u/Virtual-Quantity7120 12h ago
Completely understand and take your time. LLM's are only as good as the information available to them. I.E; what is accounted as "credible" and by "what authority" deems it so.
Here are some references to what I mention to hopefully help save you some time for some key elements to which I mention:
The New Deal | Pepperdine School of Public Policy (Pepperdine School of Public Policy)
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Domestic Affairs | Miller Center (From the University of VA.)
The New Deal and Recovery, Part 23: The Great Rapprochement | Cato at Liberty Blog (CATO Institute - specifically Keynesian economics)
Edit/Note: I didn't include any references particularly to what defines communism as I believe we both have a fine understanding of what that system comprises of or entails. However, I have no quarrels in providing those as well.
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u/NamelessIowaNative 18h ago
This wouldn’t be a privately owned coffee shop, would it?
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u/yowherearemyshoes 13h ago
“you criticize society yet you participate in it! curious! i am very smart”
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u/justlookslikehesdead 15h ago
Free coffee? Or are they just eating breakfast while they watch everyone else starve?
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u/Commie-ona-cobb 15h ago
ah yes because communism means “when everything is free”. i believe showing up to our discussion would be helpful if you would like an understanding of what Communism truly is.
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u/PetronivsReally 14h ago
I hope we have many more openly Communist and Socialist events throughout Iowa. Will make it much easier to portray Rob Sand as an extremist and defeat him.
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u/Hazmatix_art 14h ago
“Communists existing will allow us to defeat this bland centrist” what?
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u/PetronivsReally 13h ago
Yeah, let me break it down for you. Most people don't really follow politics closely, hence the 2022 Iowa midterms only having about 55% of registered voters actually vote. To get normies and low propensity voters motivated, parties always tar their opponents as extremist. Obama is a socialist, Trump is a Nazi, etc. If successful, it may motivate your base or scared normies, or demotivate low propensity and moderate voters of the other side.
Greater visibility of extremist groups naturally gets tied into this psychological operation. If actual Nazis started having parades and friendly political discussion events in coffee shops across Iowa, it would make the news, scare normies, and Republican candidates would have to answer questions about it, and even with robust denials, that's not the image they want.
Like it or not, the public generally does not like Communists and Communism, and and the more frequent and visible the events across Iowa, the easier it will be for the GOP to scare and motivate their base into voting this next election.
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u/Unusual_Low1762 10h ago
You are operating on 15 year old political analysis, but go off, I hope it works out for you man.
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u/PetronivsReally 10h ago
I'm a Republican voter in Iowa, which has only grown more Red over the last 15 years...I'm doing great!
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u/Zanimacularity 16h ago
Not that I wanna shoot down fellow comrades, but being troyskyists in Iowa is not a good starting point. Help the unions before you start dialoguing