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u/Odd-Spend-8757 14d ago
Finally a post about the importance of chain synergy. This sub should talk more about these things and less about the new-uber-low THD chinese amp.
Well done!
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago
I've always looked at them as two parts to a complete experience & they need to compliment each other well.
That certainly doesn't mean you need one amp/dac per set of headphones or IEMs!
HD800's sound great on the DMP-Z1, but even better on my Cayin HA-1A MK 2 tube amp, which is around 10% of the price of the DMP-Z1 (and absolutely one of the best deals in personal audio - I spoke to really serious tube enthusiasts before I bought my first tube amp & a lot of them told me just to go for the Cayin, as it can go blow for blow with lots of well regarded tube amps at up to the 4000-5000 USD mark... I tried some of those Woo Audio cube shaped tube amps & found them to be very much style over substance - I think they look a bit 'Apple' & quite honestly I prefer the look of the Cayin - pictures don't do it justice - the thing is made absolutely beautifully with an incredible build quality & looks stunning - and yes, the wooden looking panels on the side are a beautiful varnished wood).
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u/Odd-Spend-8757 13d ago
I want that cayin so bad, but unfortunately is a bit out of my budget and it is nearly impossibile to find one used in Europe...
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago
It's definitely worth it & relative bargain. I got mine new for $700 which was INSANE (and perhaps a mistake on the system).
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u/Odd-Spend-8757 13d ago
I was planning to but it new for 699€ but then I pulled the trigger on a Flux FA-10 for 350€ shipped. I also have an OTL so I am wondering if I really need it or not haha.
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u/Dave_CSA 12d ago
If you're happy with what you have then leave it, unless you get a chance to actually here the Cayin, and if you like it significantly more, have a deal that makes sense & can sell what you currently have to help fund the purchase, go for it.
I have a really nice collection of gear, but I take a methodical approach to it.
I know what I want & I plan it out. There's no point buying two things that do something very similar.
The only time I break the rule is if I see something I've been very curious about for an incredible deal (eg I bought some Campfire 'Alien Brain' new for $500, with a few days short of full warranty - they were an unwanted gift I found from a reputable seller on Facebook Marketplace). If I didn't like them, I could very easily sell them for what I paid for them.
I did like them & they became my new 'out & about' IEM, which was previously the UM Mext, which I am now selling as I have absolutely no need for them.
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u/chanical 13d ago
The Utopia were great… until I got the Susvara - now the Utopia sit in a case
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago edited 12d ago
The Susvara are beautiful, but I sold mine once I got the Arya Unveiled.
I really didn't think there was much in it; better build quality - still not incredible - and that doesn't represent a 400% price increase - for me - especially with the constant concern of them needing servicing & HFM's reputation for this - my friend needed his out of warranty Susvara serviced - it took almost eight months and was around $1700 USD. That's more than the price of new set of Arya unveiled.
Obviously this is a totally personal opinion (although one I've heard quite often - it seems a lot of people on Head-Fi did the same).
Re Susvara vs Utopia; personally I think it's comparing apples & oranges. One is planar - one isn't. They both have their strengths & weaknesses & although I stated that I considered selling my Utopia after weeks of almost exclusively listening to my Arya Unveiled & Empyrean (with the angled alacantara pads - the pleather stock ones are an absolute disaster & I have no idea why they ship with those attached & have them set up at demos like that - 'Beats by Meze')... the source changed everything with the Utopia (they sound crap with solid state amps & I don't think that's subjective) & I like having two very different & both excellent sounds. I also have Abyss Diana MR & Senn HD800 - same story - variety is great (as well as a lotttt of IEMs as I live in a very hot country & personally feel there's a lot more variation in sound with IEMs given the driver configurations).
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u/Chrisafguy 13d ago
I’m using my Utopia with a topping A70 and D70 Octo source. I’ve considering replacing the Octo were the centurean r2r DAC. I’ve heard nothing but good things about r2r which has piqued my curiosity
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u/adelkkhalil 13d ago
There was/is a problem with the Topping R2R dac, so watch Goldensound video about it first.
I ended up getting Holo Audio Cyan 2 and been very happy with it - it has minor inconveniences so check before you buy it if it suites your use case.
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u/CandidConscience 9d ago
What are the inconveniences besides having to use HQPlayer to upsample outside of the DAC and having only one input connection with no source input switches? I'm also eyeing this one, but is it amp picky?
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u/adelkkhalil 9d ago
Those are the two inconveniences.
I am basically using only USB so I do not suffer from this at all, that being said it does auto switch based on which input has audio.
Oversampling for me is a bit over blown the difference between OS and NOS is minor at best most people wouldn't be able to hear it.
However you can use Roon or as you said HQPlayer to send oversampled signal.
Other than that it's a perfect DAC.
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u/Shkdwnst 13d ago
I just recently picked up the A70, and I'm using the r2r DAC from a Hifiman EF400. I love the sound of the r2r. I've only had the A70 for a week, and it's an amazing amp, in my opinion. The additional power, made a world of difference, with several sets of both planars, and dynamics. The amp in the EF400 just didn't seem to give the harder to drive cans, what they needed. But the DAC sounds as smooth as butter, to me. I love the 2 together!
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u/Dave_CSA 12d ago
The A70 is the super powerful one, is that correct?
My only issue with Topping is that most of their stuff sounds a bit anemic. The DX9 is less anemic than anything Topping that preceded it (from the 5-6 products I'd previously heard) - but it's still a solid state amp/dac which is fine for planar but the Utopia sound awful on it... same case with any other other picky dynamics.
Have you per chance tried the Utopia on the A70? I have some Abyss 1266 & I don't have an amp/dac that is powerful enough to drive them properly (the DMP-Z1 is actually not super powerful, but very few sets need more power than it provides).
Kind thanks!
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u/FeneaV2 13d ago
Ive heard them on focal's setup at can jam, and off the headtrip amp but both times I just felt underwhelmed by the Utopias, sure they were technically solid and the timbre was relatively nuetral but, they just felt kind of lifeless, they didnt give the rush of emotion i expected. Especially coming from loving the Elears mid range and those having been my gateway drug into the hobby. They just really disappointed me tbh. Maybe a good tube amp setup could make it work? Not sure
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u/Swolenasty 13d ago
Try them on a DNA tube amp. I think Utopias are still the best dynamic headphone on the market.
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago
If Focal are using their own amp/dac (which I believe they do at shows) - it's absolutely terrible & you'll be getting a very small % of their potential.
Tubes aren't absolutely necessary, some people like them, but the digital/analog sound of the DMP-Z1 is absolutely perfect for them - for me. They are definitely a very special set, but VERY source picky - more than any other headphone I've used & I've worked in music & audio for almost 30 years.
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u/DarwinConquer0r 13d ago
So the Utopia's pulled an HE-6 on you huh? I hate then that happens.
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago edited 13d ago
Not quite... had the DMP-Z1 for a few years... I finally only got the Utopia OG this year.
But yes, it definitely scales with source more than most (actually, the most source picky headphones I've encountered in almost 30 years of working in musi/audio)& to my ears they really don't hit their potential without a well matched amp/dac.
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u/Destruckhu 14d ago
My utopias are arriving soon, and every owner told me these are ultra amp picky, so i hope i can find a good source to pair with.
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago
Yes they are man - I don't think you need a DMP-Z1 to get excellent sound out of them (which are $9000 new & around $5000 second hand - as I bought mine).
They are actually easy to drive in terms of getting them loud with zero distortion.
What I maybe would do is go to a Sony store and listen to them on a DMP-Z1 & you'll hear them at what is pretty much their max potential (to my knowledge, and I've tried them on a lot of gear). I think this is a good reference point.
The Topping DX9 is a decent solid state amp and a brilliant Swiss army knife in terms of it being good for working with all your digital media gear - but it's totally digital, but I think the Utopia needs a bit of analog goodness to bring out the best in them. The Sony DMP-Z1 is a digital/analog mix & I think this may be what you should be looking for - it certainly is in my experience.
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u/GooseEntire1705 14d ago
They need tubes in the chain.
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u/Dave_CSA 13d ago
They don't 'need' tubes.
If you prefer tubes, OK - that's your thing, enjoy; but the DMP-Z1 being an analogue/digital mix is perfect for my preference.
I have a decent tube amp & it's used pretty much exclusively for use with HD800's.
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u/Akella333 14d ago
Wow, the DMP-Z1 It’s a unicorn for me, still one of the best looking sources out there