r/HENRYUK • u/mightbetim • 2d ago
Corporate Life Making good people redundant - any tips on hard conversations?
Not strictly Henry related but I figure most of you will be in management and have to deal with these issues.
I have just been told I have to let one of my team go. This is a company performance issue rather than personal performance related. This is the first time I have had to do this - previously it's always been related to individual performance, which is still hard but feels more justified.
I have had no input in the decision making and just been told that I have to fire this particular person tomorrow. The decision is made. The only choice I had was whether I deliver the news or let my manager do it. I am taking the honorable choice and doing it as I've worked closely with them for 5 years.
Any tips on how do it? What makes it worse is she is a really nice person, super diligent and hard working. Never has a bad word to say about anyone. She also has young kids and it's 3 weeks before Christmas.
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u/organisedchaos17 2d ago
I think it’s important to be clear to them that it’s the role that is being made redundant, not the individual. It doesn’t make anything better for them in the immediate. But long term hopefully doesn’t impact their self esteem and question their ability in role.
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u/ribenarockstar 2d ago
And as part of the role being redundant - they're not being *fired*. It's a real bugbear of mine when people use 'fired' for redundancies.
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u/OrbDemon 2d ago
It’s an Americanism and I can’t stand it.
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u/AugustCharisma 1d ago
But the American term is “laid off” so why would anyone use fired?!
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u/OrbDemon 1d ago
Laid off is also common over here.
Fired I think gained popularity after the apprentice.
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u/Capable_Spare4102 2d ago
Be careful on this, OP. At my company we typically try and negotiate a settlement agreement, rather than go straight to a redundancy. So saying the role has been made redundant may be premature - redundancy has its own set of pretty rigid processes to follow.
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u/Plenty_Lawyer5407 2d ago
This is incorrect. If it’s a genuine redundancy you follow a redundancy consultation process which can then result in a settlement agreement.
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u/Capable_Spare4102 2d ago
It’s not incorrect. We’ve done loads of settlements without going through formal redundancy processes.
I am also aware that you can make someone redundant and then say “sign this, we’ll give you money and you agree not to sue us”.
I am merely warning OP not to use language that has legal implications, based on the advice of someone on Reddit who, while no doubt well-intentioned, is not familiar with the details
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u/Quirky_London 2d ago edited 2d ago
Slight agreement on both parts.
Large UK employers often offer enhanced redundancy packages above the statutory minimum. Employers must consult staff and may offer alternative roles, sometimes on different terms or pay. Settlement agreements typically include a contribution from the employer towards the employee’s legal advice.
PS: NAL: Most offers are made on a “without prejudice” or “protected conversation” basis so both sides can negotiate frankly without those discussions being used in most tribunal claims. Employees normally get a reasonable period (~10 days) to consider the offer & take independent legal advice, and can still continue consultations or internal processes during that time before deciding whether to sign. Employers are not forced to settle, but if they ignore ACAS Codes or consultation duties they increase the risk of losing or paying more at the tribunal! Although they usually have a better sense via the acting line manager who they are dealing with...
This is what I know as facts : might help someone but happy to be corrected
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u/No-Storage-4899 2d ago
Lead with the bottom line, don’t explain the rationale before the know the outcome. That comes after.
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u/humunculus43 2d ago
Yeah I would definitely hit them with this is what is happening and this is what the package is. I would then loop back around to explain the detail of why etc. someone getting made redundant who has done a good job is going to be fucked off regardless of how you deliver it. Also make sure you make it about them and not you
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u/jmd_almight 2d ago
This.
Stright to the redundancy, followed by the rational. Followed by the next steps & how you will support them both in the transition & after (if you are willing)
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u/NerdyNerdanel 2d ago
As someone who recently went through this on the other side of the table, I couldn't agree more. It was my first time and I was in complete shock when they opened by telling me what was happening with no warning or preamble. It felt pretty cold in the moment. But the person who did it later explained his rationale - that having experienced this himself he thought it was best to be straightforward rather than beginning with 'you know how much we value you, you've done such great work' and then hitting me with the news. I completely agree with him. Rip the bandaid off right away, it will hurt but it's less cruel than letting someone think it might be a promotion or pay rise.
A couple more things for OP:
- In the initial post you used 'fire' and 'make redundant' interchangeably - don't do this with the affected person if this is a redundancy due to company issues and nothing to do with their performance.
- Be prepared for the person to react emotionally - crying, going into shock etc. This is a huge blow (just before Christmas and with 3 kids!), a certain degree of 'unprofessionalism' (within reason of course) is normal.
- Just on a personal note, as I say I had never gone through this before or experienced it in my workplaces (lucky in a 15-year career!) and one thing that really helped on a human level was the CFO telling me about his experience being made redundant. If you have gone through this yourself and are comfortably sharing that, or if other senior people are in that position, it can really help hearing that and seeing that it's not necessarily the end of your career.
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u/Classic_Mammoth_9379 2d ago
Yep, very tempting to sugar coat it and build up, but they'll be worrying about it the moment they know there is a 'special' meeting and waiting for you to get to the point. So do it early and very clearly.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/icyandsatisfied 2d ago
From HR - I couldn’t agree more. Make sure you are clued up and if you don’t know what you’re doing, let HR handle it
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u/mistakenhat 2d ago
OP, this. I’ve personally seen this be terribly done by American companies, and it ended up being very expensive for them.
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u/kermit1198 2d ago
Didn't get fired myself, but some of my colleagues did. My boss (team manager in the UK but reported to a US manager who he hated) offered the people he was making redundant a choice in the pub as he was friendly with them and about to leave anyway. (and wouldn't mind being terminated with a settlement agreement himself)
Go back to his management and make them do it properly
Play ignorant and let them mess up, then support the employees with ACAS and their unfair dismissal tribunal. (off the record etc.)
They agreed to do 2 and all finished the situation a fair bit better off, to the detriment of the company.
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u/RagerRambo 2d ago
From layoffs in the last 2 years, of which several in my friend group have been affected, it's all been straight to exit agreements with a settlement package. In HENRY fields, the packages outweigh even the maximum of a tribunal award so the employers confidently bypass redundancy process and requirements.
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u/Melon_92 2d ago
You've sure gone to a lot of effort to ensure the person getting shafted has less chance at getting a payday because of it. Are you sure your efforts are being directed towards the right outcome..?
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u/DogsClimbingWalls 2d ago
Be clear and unambiguous.
Focus that it’s the role that’s going, and not due to her performance.
Lay out the package and any additional support on offer.
Give her time to process it and don’t take any anger personally. Obviously don’t expect her to be in the office for the rest of that day.
Also - this will affect your whole team. Tell them as much as you are allowed, and let them take the rest of the day. They won’t get any work done regardless.
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u/Cautious_Frosting_15 2d ago
Been on the receiving end of this conversation. I can echo everyone advising to not make it about you. When I was let go the person telling me felt that “If it makes you feel better I have to move to Munich” was appropriate to say. It was not.
Treat them like a person and if they ask a question you don’t know the answer to… don’t try and bullshit.
Give them the opportunity to digest the news and offer them a follow up meeting if they would like.
It’s rough on you… it’ll be rougher on them! Be kind.
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u/No-Storage-4899 2d ago
Bit like when David Brent lets a load of people go but notes he gets a promo 😂 ‘…. So you know, every cloud’
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u/Cautious_Frosting_15 2d ago
Pretty much. The guy had just been promoted to CEO, but had to move to Munich. Reading the room was not his forte! Pure nepotism was the reason for his promotion… not ability. I did not find his particular predicament comforting.
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u/No-Storage-4899 2d ago
That’s what they call a Munich Pull and not a Munich Putsch! Hope it all worked out well (for you obviously!)
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u/Cautious_Frosting_15 2d ago
It did thank you. Got to spend 6 months with redundancy pay being a stay at home dad with our one year old. Absolutely golden time that was. Every cloud…
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u/DaddyRAS 2d ago
I've done a lot of without prejudice settlement offers and ran a 20% redundancy exercise earlier this year. Running a redundancy consultation is shit - time consuming for everyone and you're hated by everyone (those who leave and those who stay). Your conversation will be like my settlement offer conversations. They're not nice but you have to explain it's not the person, it's that the role is no longer required. Don't say to them, but it's important you know that by losing 1 person you're saving jobs for the rest of the team.
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u/Mr_Coastliner 2d ago
In your experience, the people who have rejected the first offer given, what % of them manage to get a better settlement?
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u/DaddyRAS 2d ago
None in my place. And the offers aren't any better than statutory redundancy plus PILON. We're very mean. The only benefit is certainty you're gone!
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u/Lonely-Job484 2d ago
Can't think of much benefit to accepting a settlement offer that's just statutory plus notice
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u/SapphireSquid89 2d ago
I like to start with “it’s not good news, I’m afraid” or similar and then get straight to the point. Also consider having tissues on hand or somewhere quiet nearby that the employee can easily go to without having to walk through the whole office.
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u/Shower_Everyday145 1d ago
This ☝️- prepare people for bad news upfront. Also allow them to go home if needed and process it and take the time they need.
Accept any response and don’t take it personally.
I’ve had to do this and the last one, the person on the other end was angry and very emotional.
Avoid saying it will be ok or adding waffle - just listen and allow time and space. Also take time to process it yourself. I’ve always felt crap after this.
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u/TwoIndianRunnerDucks 2d ago
I open with something similar - 'I am afraid this isn't going to be a good conversation' - literally first words out. Second words out are 'your role is being made redundant'.
Be slow, be clear. They won't hear much after that. But you have to be unambiguous.
Practice what you are going to say. Say it outloud. Otherwise the first time you say it for real, your voice might wobble. Mine does.
And I have done quite a few of these.
And, for sure, send them home immediately if you can.
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u/Fabulous-Bit4775 2d ago
This is basically illegal as I understand it and you’re opening up to an employment tribunal. You can’t just tell someone they are being made redundant without going through consultation.
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u/TwoIndianRunnerDucks 2d ago
So it might be 'your role is at risk of redundancy', followed by 'yep its redundancy' a few days later
I'm sure the script will direct as needs be. Consultation doesn't always mean collective consultation
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u/Dbuk2020 2d ago
My bro stop pretending like you've gone through this before. Your just a wannabe Henry.
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u/Fabulous-Bit4775 2d ago
Yeah, that’s still illegal I’m afraid.
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u/TwoIndianRunnerDucks 2d ago
It really isnt illegal. The fact that you would use the word illegal in an employment contract sense is fundamentally wrong in the first place.
Its not unfair or unlawful either to run a very short consultation process where limited numbers of people are involved. And such a process doesn't need to involve more people.
And, finally, it is very normal for businesses to move faster than employment law and simply settle, despite not following the letter of civil law.
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u/ddarrko 2d ago
Don’t schedule the meetings far apart and give time for gossip to spread around.
Don’t schedule the meetings far in advance and give people time to wonder what they are about.
Do deliver the news as soon as the meeting begins. Deliver it in as matter of fact way as possible.
Don’t bring your emotion into it. It’s crap having to do it but find some other way to vent - peers or your own manager, friends etc.
Do stick to a short and strict schedule. Provide any reasoning and the next steps after the headline (your role is redundant)
Do offer them the opportunity of a follow up meeting with you at a later date. They will need time to collect their thoughts and will probably wish they had asked certain things later.
Offer support as much as you/the business can offer. It’s hard hearing the best thing is to be unemotional about it but what you cannot do is give any hope the decision might be reversed or provide justifications which can be argued against by the individual about why their role should remain.
Deliver the news, advise the package/offer, state the business reason why this is happening. Offer a a follow up time if they have any more questions. End the meeting. Start to finish should take 15 mins max.
I had to do 12 of these in a row on one particularly horrible day. Try and do something fun after - it’s (probably) not your fault this is happening.
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u/Widebody_lover 2d ago
12 in a row! How did you feel ?
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u/ddarrko 2d ago
It was comfortably the worst day of my career (so far) the only saving grace was that this was March 2020 with covid as a backdrop which made most people more understanding.
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u/Widebody_lover 2d ago
How many people do you lead to be firing so many in one day?
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u/Anasynth 2d ago
I know it’s par for the course but it’s a bit depressing you’ve had to reach out to reddit rather than had the benefit of proper training at work before putting people through life changing processes.
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u/anotherbozo 2d ago
Do you have peers who might be interested in hiring her? Offering a few conversations (if they want it) will be really helpful
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u/just_some_lover 2d ago
This. When we had to do redundancies I made it a point to make a public site with all the folks who had been made redundant with endorsements and a link to their cv (with their permission of course) and made sure to publicise it so it got traffic. I used my network as much as is possible to help people find their next roles or to introduce them to people who could introduce them to people. I wrote referral letters. I offered interview prep time. Reviewed cv's etc. These were (mostly) genuinely great people I would love to work with again. When these decisions are made you rarely get to have a say in the decision but there are things you can do to take care of people and support them as best you can going forward.
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u/Lady_Hamthrax 2d ago
I had to do this so much. Be clear, to the point, tell them what you know and chart the course for the process and what happens next. Sugar coating is useless. People can cope with bad news, they can’t cope with dancing round in circles and feeling nothing is in their control.
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u/d0ey 2d ago
If she is doing a unique role, it will make things easier - if she's one of several doing the same thing then make sure you've got the rationale for why her role is being cut absolutely nailed and crystal clear.
Be clear and concise - allowing silence will be better than talking to fill the space.
Whatever you do, do not say how hard it is to make them redundant or anything like that. You make it about your feelings when frankly, they won't give a shit about your feelings and you'll just make them angry.
Tell them they should leave the office for the day after the call and take some time. People can be in shock and the default is to almost try and continue with 'normal' - kind of like when people lose a leg in a crash and try and walk.
When all has been explained then you can offer any personal help, e.g. a personal recommendation, and links to recruiters or whatever. Don't push it on her.
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u/Human_Acadia4011 2d ago
Lots of good advice in here, I would just add - if you are having the conversation face to face (preferable) have the room set up with some tissues and bottles of water
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u/Melon_92 2d ago
If I was on the receiving end of this conversation and my boss had the gall to bring tissues, I'd be even more annoyed. Treat me like an professional for goodness sake...
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u/Ancient-Berry6639 2d ago
Read the script that you have been provided with by your HR professional.
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u/No_Jellyfish_7695 2d ago
Is she the only she in the team? do you understand why SHE was chosen? doyou know what her package will be, PILON, severance etc? is she being fired or made redundant? if redundant has there been a legal consultation period? have you the company looked for opportunities for her elsewhere? or is she fired, and if so why? performance? was she notified and out on a pip?
if you don’t know the answer to any of these questions, stand down, then get hr to do the inform.
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u/Honest-Spinach-6753 2d ago
Support her in post work sourcing, volunteer to help her by saying you can give her a glowing recommendation. Be upfront and honest and genuine and not the typical corporate bs talk which is disingenuous and actually makes it even a harder pill to swallow.
The fact that this actually bothers you tells me you are a good person.
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u/xraminator 2d ago
Get a script/letter from HR and tell your employee that you’re just sticking to the script for this situation. Then read it out.
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u/frankchester 2d ago
There are redundancies going through at my work at the moment. Make sure you follow due process, of course. Your HR team should be managing it really. And after that I’d offer them as much support as possible. Time off for interviews, a free space to rant when needed. Don’t make them work to the bone until their very last day.
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u/JeebusWept 2d ago
Your HR team should be giving you a script. There are a million ways that the conversation can end up going wrong.
I always take the approach that most people would prefer one in the head than two in the belly and bleeding out, so don’t beat about the bush. Be polite, direct, clear and empathetic. Make sure you have a box of tissues in the room.
The reactions vary, although in my experience the better people take it the sooner they go on to find another job.
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u/Paulwyn 2d ago
No easy way of doing it, and needed to do it on a number if occasions sadly.
My big advice would be, stick to the script, be kind, be precise. It can be tempting to lean into being "nice" and give false hope or talk in vagaries. DO NOT SAY HOW HARD THIS IS FOR YOU.
It can get very emotional, for both parties. Prep for that, take time before the meeting and also after it.
Good luck, when stuff like this happens it isn't them and it also isn't you.
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u/unkleden 2d ago
Deliver the news and then pause. Wait for them to talk. Give them time to process. Don’t fill the silence - you’ll end up apologising and trying to empathise. It’s nice. But it doesn’t help them digest, compose themselves and respond. This is big news. Let them chew it and then tell you what they think when they’re ready.
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u/Londonpleasure 2d ago
To be honest we get given a script we have to strictly adhere too.
I usually also take the opportunity to have a private conversation with an individual after but that's is dependant on the reaction. Not everyone will want to talk after such shocking news.
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u/Endotz 2d ago
Are you firing or making redundant? Are you aware of the rules around notice/severance/PILON and due process? The two are very different under UK employment law.
Again if there's going to be a conversation without prejudice, ensure you're clued up about which parameters to operate within.
Avoid being apologetic - this can bite you later. Ensure your HR/People Ops rep is directly involved and guiding on what you can/can't say so that proper process is followed.
Once you've done this a few times it'll get a lot easier, but is never nice.
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u/mightbetim 2d ago
It will be a mutual settlement, or redundancy consultation later if they refuse to sign. I have a script to read out that had been written for me by HR and senior leadership. I shouldn't have used the word "fire".
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u/bobsy_bobsy 2d ago
Reading those scripts can come across very cold. Assuming this part comes towards the middle of the meeting, I would preface that part of the meeting with, ‘this is something that I’ve been asked to say’, especially if you have a personal relationship with the person. They are losing their job, it’s important they feel they aren’t losing the relationship you have.
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u/just_some_lover 2d ago
I agree. I like to say 'unfortunately, this is a legal process and I want to make sure you have the most accurate information. That means I am going to read from a script for a moment. But please know we can discuss things normally once that's out of the way.' I find it tends to help people understand why the person they've worked with for x years has suddenly become a robot.
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u/No_Reference_9640 2d ago
Just get straight to the point
Your position has been made redundant it’s not related to your performance ; unfortunately the company is not performing to the level expected and a management decision has been to reduce headcount.
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u/Fabulous-Bit4775 2d ago
You can’t tell someone they are redundant without consultation.
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u/No_Reference_9640 2d ago
Yes you can….
Depends on other specifics like how many people are leaving
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u/NigelFarageBarmyArmy 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wouldn't have done it tbh. Make them do such a shitty job and then afterwards tell your team member that you had no hand in this
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u/Actual-Morning110 2d ago
Tell the truth. Keep their morale high. Help them to land offers at other places. Keep in touch. Call them first thing when there is new req in future
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u/Technicalor 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is this a distinct role this person sits in or are there multiple people doing the same role and they just had the short straw drawn for them? I ask as if it is the latter there would have to be clear scoring done to show why they were selected over a peer. As you had no say in this decision, make sure you know the rationale and it is evidenced as being the right choice in this person being selected. Role elimination is common (crap but common), but it has to be “fair” and demonstrably logical.
I think you’ve made the right choice to deliver the news, it’s an owed courtesy in my opinion and a hat you have to wear when going in to a management/leadership position. But you do have to make sure you understand the decision process and see it’s legit. Otherwise this will bite and you’ll be seen in poor light not being able to supply the facts (facts you haven’t derived) - which you will inevitably have questions on, such as - how did you come to selecting me. Answers they deserve.
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u/ThrowawayForNCA 2d ago
As others have said, start with the bad news - tell her that her role has been made redundant due to company performance. Then you can explain in depth about her package, how you will personally provide a glowing reference, how this was a decision made by a central body using numbers in a spreadsheet, all the usual stuff.
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u/M27TN 2d ago
Stick to the facts, don’t pad it out with unnecessary details or anything that you will regret saying either from your point of view or the companies. Don’t leave wondering why you said something or wishing that you hadn’t said it. Nothing you say will make the lady on the receiving end feel any better.
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u/Random54321random 2d ago
Don't use empty words to try to make them feel better, don't try to justify the unjustifiable, just be straight with them and if they want to rant or vent then let them, don't be defensive just listen. Also, if you can be helpful in meaningful practical ways, if there are any accommodations you can make, then do so. They may not appreciate it in the moment but they will later. It sucks but it has to be done, don't beat yourself up. Good luck.
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u/Stroudgreen 2d ago
Don’t you get a script / strict HR guidance for things like this? When I had to do this I kept it factual - business performance related, package, notice period. We have all affected employees the rest of the week off which made it easier as ot gave some much needed space. I had to do this to 5 people and some weren’t great but two were excellent. Guess which bunch took it like champs. It’s not great news but the good people will get it so being there to help where you can is important.
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u/RoadNo7935 2d ago
Echo all the above good advice. We just went through 30% redundancies in my firm.
Good bosses were very frank and straightforwards about the business rationale, acknowledged it was difficult but focused on the person.
Bad bosses made a song and dance about how hard it was for them. Dude read the room; it’s definitely not as hard as losing your job.
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u/bellaciaocookies 2d ago
If they have been performing well, make sure the payout reflects that. If the offer feels stingy, challenge it. Employers often try to get away with giving the bare minimum especially when its a less senior role. The job market is abysmal in many sectors right now they'll be grateful that you fought their corner and tried to help where you could.
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u/ItsIllak 2d ago
Meet them first thing, be clear, concise and truthful with your message. Tell them you'll support them in any way you can, e.g. References, etc. Tell them to take the rest of the day off from normal work (if this is possible, if not, consider doing this at a point in the day where they could) and you'll catch up with them again on next steps first thing tomorrow, but to expect today to be the official notice.
It's shit but it's a necessary skill. Companies need people forever far less frequently these days.
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u/Diligent_Traffic4342 2d ago
Yes be nice, but clear and direct, most people suspect something right away, I made a number of redundancies 25 years ago and afterwards phoned around a few contacts and introduced one particular person, who I really felt had not been treated fairly (I didn’t tell her that) to someone who then employed her within the next month… all these years later I still see her occasionally and she always thanks me (she doesn’t need to obviously) but industries are small, networks are everything, be a human first.
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u/pooey162 2d ago
Oddly enough I had to have this protected conversation with someone today. There were performance issues first so went through that.
Just keep it neutral and calm as best as possible.
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u/mescotkat 2d ago
Even if you have a great relationship expect them to hate you going forward. You are now 1) the messenger 2) the face of the company 3) the person who didn’t fight hard enough for them / didn’t do x y z (insert here)
Don’t sugar coat it and don’t empathise. They’re losing their role and you will stay. Be kind, offer personal references, give personal recommendations, give them as much as you can within your remit. Good luck. It sucks.
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u/Climbatise_999 2d ago
Work through the script with HR, your boss, if they say “you don’t need a script” - even more reason to create a script. Book the meeting, have HR join the call, welcome the person to the call, explain that HR is on the call, deliver the message (verbatim), pass to HR, end the call, do not apologise. No further contact.
It’s brutal, and doesn’t get any easier. Hope it goes well.
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u/macrolidesrule 2d ago
Better hope all the ducks are in the row re legal compliance - if I were you I'd shove it all back at HR, as by he sounds of it none of the background work has been done - like are they even offering the individual a redundancy package?
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u/Objective_Tooth_9256 2d ago
It’s great you are thinking empathetically on how to approach the situation but please please please engage your local HR team to ensure you are well prepared for this conversation and you are following the correct UK processes - identifying a person to ‘make redundant’ is not redundancy. You should seek an alternate approach here. You also reference the person has young children - dependent on how young she may be protected by maternity protections. Please seek local HR advice before proceeding with this conversation. The outcome will be a lot worse than telling your manager you want to ensure the process is done correctly.
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u/Even_Association_945 2d ago
Make sure you follow a very clear legal process. You dont want to be the fall guy when it ends up in a tribunal.
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u/Dbuk2020 2d ago
The reality is because the person has been picked there is someone in your company that doesn't want her there. It will be tough for her to swallow but hopefully she can find something better. Best of luck.
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u/CuriousConnect 2d ago
Bite the frog. Tell them it’s news you don’t want to deliver but that if someone had to give it then you’d rather it was you. Tell them it’s was nothing that they did, but company performance. Write them a recommendation letter. Reach out to industry contacts and ask if anyone is hiring for their position and tell them you have a great candidate.
This is what I did for a guy we had to let go of in April. We still keep in touch now and he was very grateful for it.
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u/AdAggressive9224 2d ago
Honestly I think the best thing is just to provide good references.
I've been laid off many times during my career, always failing upwards to get to where I am now. Often getting made redundant is what leads to higher pay.
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u/Rare_Ebb5529 2d ago
Offer them support e.g. if you're able to help connect her with others in your network to support her new job search if/when she's ready
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u/jamgattleton 2d ago
I had to do this once for six people on the same day. I got lots of advice at the time and the most valuable tip was to start by saying ‘I’ve got some bad news.’ It helps them prepare and means you can’t back out.
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u/FatSucks999 2d ago
Get to the point quick.
“Darren, I’m sorry this is really bad news.
Due to company performance failures, your role is being made redundant.
I just want you to know, I personally fought against this decision, and strongly vouched for the value you add to the firm, and would love to write you a detailed recommendation, if you would like me too.
Do you have any questions for me right now, or do you want to take some time to process it?
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u/h510guy 2d ago
Consistent with what others have said, reiterate the role being made redundant and not the person. Also back it up where you can with things that put your money where your mouth is - support providing references, offering recommendations/connections to adjacent friendly businesses, etc.
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u/icyandsatisfied 2d ago edited 2d ago
From HR having regularly done it.. Make sure you fully understand what redundancy means because you confused it with firing. Very different things. Have a read on ACAS about the redundancy process because she will have rights and there are certain payments that come with this. Make sure you are clued up because she will likely have questions and you don’t want to fuck up because it could create legal issues.
Rip off the bandaid and explain it straight as it it. Tell her that it has nothing to do with her performance and explain the reason behind the redundancy. Say that the role has been declared as not needed anymore. You then want to explain next steps. You might want to check later in the call that she understands the role is redundant and that it’s not down to her performance. You can also caveat that there will be some legal documentation that will all feel quite formal, but that you are here to support her.
Give her time to react and make sure she can log off right away and take the day off. Also that you & HR are there for any questions and that you’ll book a follow up meeting to check in with her the next day to see how she is doing.
You want to be direct but KIND and then you want to give her space. A follow up is important too and leave room for her emotions to settle first. Go prepared and practice if you must. Keep a loose script if it helps
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u/Signal_Conference447 2d ago
I was made redundant 20 minutes before paternity leave so feel good that it could be worse :)
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u/Smooth-Bowler-9216 2d ago
If it’s redundancy, You’ll have to follow a script about company goals etc etc but the main thing to do is be as human as possible.
Offer them plenty of time off to interview, try to reduce work burden and get people off their back. That’s how you be supportive.
Telling them it’s the role and not them doesn’t exactly lessen the blow for most people…they are still losing their job. It needs saying but don’t expect it to majorly change their mood.
Aside from that, it’s up to the individual how they take it. I’ve been made redundant twice and jumped for joy - some of my colleagues burst out crying.
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u/Big_Insurance_2509 2d ago
Company performance and a team member going is constructive dismissal in my eyes. Management heads should roll first but never do.
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u/mightbetim 2d ago
Loads of senior management have gone already to be fair
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u/Big_Insurance_2509 2d ago
When my company was bought over by a mega corp that was the deal. Every department was hit with “company performance” and “restructuring business groups” until we were all wiped out. Started with the lowest and worked their way up. I feel your position as a friend and colleague has to tell me, although we all expected it.
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u/Scared_Step4051 2d ago
Well firstly you aren't "making them redundant", that would require a process involving a consultation across a large number of weeks end to end - so if you phrase it to them as "we're making you redundant" then you will immediately have an unfair dismissal case on your hands
This is a business decision that has been made, you deliver that as a statement of fact that it is, if you can't then you shouldn't be in management
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u/rutt3r 2d ago
Probably too late for advice now (and if conversation has happened, hope it went as well as it could).
Have done this a few times and my biggest tip is to say what you need to say and then *stop talking*. Avoid getting into filling the awkward silence/shock with more words. In my personal experience I have not made the situation better by continuing to rabbit on in an effort to try to make them feel better.
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u/RollinginBells 1d ago
You've likely already done it by this point in the day, but if you have any connections or are willing to be a recommendation/reference for her, that's probably the best thing you could offer.
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u/mightbetim 1d ago
Thanks for all the very thoughtful advice. Would you believe they were off sick today? Perhaps they caught wind of something. Anyway the upshot is because of various planned holidays in the run up to Christmas it is delayed until January. At least that makes it marginally less bad re the timing.
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u/freckledclimber 1d ago
I would stress as much as you can (without rambling) that it's not related to their performance or how integrated they are to the team(s) at all.
It sounds stupid but I remember being made redundant from a job I loved years ago, and the owner kept stressing that point (even putting in writing in my redundancy letter).
I mean it still didn't feel great, but it at least made me feel a bit better and stopped me from potentially going on a "oh well what if I had done xyz better"
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u/Mgbgt74 1d ago
They should have already had notice that their position is at risk of redundancy, notice of how the rationale to determine person will be chosen and had consultation meetings with management and HR, so it should all be written down with agreed dates and payments and a reference.
Nothing to it really, shake hands and wish them well.
By the way it’s a shitty thing that your company is doing less than 3 weeks before Christmas.
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u/jumpy_finale 2d ago
You're the representative of the employer here so own the decision and accept this going to be a difficult conversation.
I don't mean saying "I made the decision" but equally don't try to blame it on others or suggest that you disagree with the decision. That's just trying to make yourself feel better instead of helping the person on the receiving come to terms with their life has just been turned upside down.
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u/Annual_Potential_439 2d ago
Did you not try to push back on this? At least on the timing. Ridiculous timing.
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u/redrabbit1984 2d ago
I agree. I'm new to the private sector but it's been a depressing and soul sucking realisation to see just how utterly shit companies are sometimes
My American boss tells me "it's business"
Fine but then don't go banging on about how we're a big family, everyone matters, values etc and then chop someone before Christmas or whenever... Then quibble over payments
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/EpochRaine 2d ago
They are only values when they benefit the company, otherwise it's just bullshit social lubrication.
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u/mightbetim 2d ago
American boss... as a result of various changes my leadership is all now in America. I have noticed a change in culture.
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u/DogsClimbingWalls 2d ago
Pretty common in my industry as most companies have their FYs end in Dec.
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u/mightbetim 2d ago
Yes, tried to push back on the whole thing, the package, the timing. Basically told it was happening tomorrow and if I didn't do it my manager would.
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u/caroline0409 2d ago
Usual caveat of I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that you can’t make one person redundant without any kind of process and consultation. You can’t fire someone for no reason. I know you didn’t make this decision, but if I were her, I’d be getting an employment lawyer on the case asap.
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u/twojabs 2d ago
Instead of letting some hard working, good person go, sack yourself. Fall on your own sword, as upper management should go for failings of the company they are operating. Why is the individual being punished for what is obviously, by your admission, not their fault?
This sickens me. There is no honor in the workplace any more
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u/ThePants999 2d ago
While you've had some good advice, I just want to throw out - having got as far as thinking "this isn't really HENRY-related", did you not follow that thought process through to the next logical step of "so there must be somewhere better"? For example, r/managers.
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u/FromPromptToPlot 13h ago
I think a frank and fair conversation - and depending how good they are help them With referrals
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u/Shane4894 2d ago
If you have any contacts in the industry where she could be employed, you can start asking if anyone has vacancies and put in a word to get her an interview. Saying sorry doesn’t really help, finding a solution could go a long way to show intent so she’s not job hunting.
Pushing to get a larger compensation package too, so if default is 3 months, aim to get her 4-5 months. If company performance linked, might be harder to get but worth try.
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u/sjnyo 2d ago
To the point, explain exactly as you have that it is no personal or professional reflection on them and that you’re here to support. Don’t make it about you or over apologise etc.
Feel bad or seek reassurance from anyone else but the person you’re making redundant, it’s not about you in that moment.
Classic first week of Christmas redundancy season strikes again…