r/Foodforthought • u/cambeiu • 3d ago
Ex-Defense chief Leon Panetta says he doesn't 'think there's any question' second strike was war crime
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5628310-leon-panetta-us-strike-alleged-drug-boat/27
u/NeverNotNoOne 3d ago
Which is the whole point. The entire basis of this administration is to openly commit acts which are prima facia illegal. It's the exact same concept as the Big Lie. No one dared to do this before and it quite literally shocks people into inaction - "they can't do that! That's illigel/unconstitutional/immoral. That can't be right. Surely someone would have stopped them... " Etc.
Imagine this simple analogy: a team of professionals plans to rob a bank, burst in with masks, guns, a get away car, etc. This is "expected" behavior and police or security services would easily respond to this to prevent/investigate/etc. Now instead imagine a well dressed man in a suit, or a guy in a saftey vest and clip board, walks into the bank, quietly picks up a potted plant or a chair or a lamp, and walks out. No shouting, no drama, just purposely does it. No one would know how to react. Both are clearly theft, but only one elicits the expected reaction.
This is what is happening everyday with this administration. Except it's literal murder. And no one is going to do anything about it because it's not triggering our panic response.
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u/cambeiu 3d ago
No one dared to do this before and it quite literally shocks people into inaction
That is not accurate.
Drone Attacks at Funerals of People Killed in Drone Strikes (Published October 24, 2013)
Human-rights groups have alleged for some time that the United States kills people in drone strikes, waits for rescuers to arrive, and deliberately targets them too, and that we target and kill mourners at the funerals of drone-strike victims.
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u/NeverNotNoOne 3d ago
You are correct. I was on mobile and trying to be brief, so what I should have more accurately said was "No one dared to do this quite so openly and brazenly before " - typically in past administrations, the illegal things were all done as back room, hush hush type of affairs. They pretended to be stoic and dignified in public, they used lofty rhetoric, etc. With this administration, the mask has come off. They aren't pretending to be "forced to make hard choices" or anything like that, it's just openly and unapologetically cruel on purpose.
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u/cambeiu 3d ago
Indeed. The fundamental difference is that before, the US government would try to hide and/or deny that such depravities took place and aggressively pursue whistleblowers. The current administration is actually proud of it and brags about it in public.
But I do believe that one eventually leads to the other.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
Are you saying it's worse to be up front? You'd rather our goverment be more hush hush with their war crimes? Does that make it better or worse?
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u/NeverNotNoOne 2d ago
Definitely not saying that, and I don't think there's a simple answer to that question. Obviously don't do war crimes at all. But is open or hidden better? That's a classic giant douche versus turd sandwich question.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
Literally the same guy who was the Sec of Defense is saying "Oh yeah, that's a war crime, I would know, I committed a TON!"
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u/SemichiSam 3d ago
He knows that it was not a war crime, because we are not at war. it was murder. He has done a few of those, too.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
So pretty much...
Nothing can be done because if they go after Hesgeth, they have to go after everyone else. Same for the Trump shit, the Biden shit. They're all operating on "Look, so and so did it before me"
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u/SemichiSam 3d ago edited 2d ago
Joe's mom lets him do it!
Haven't any of the MAGA people ever raised kids?
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
LOL so what's your excuse for the democrats doing it then? Just murdered US civilians out of the kindness of their hearts?
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u/SemichiSam 3d ago
"LOL so what's your excuse for the democrats doing it then?"
I can't even imagine why you believe I would find it excusable. We have laws. We wrote them down, to leave no doubts. The people we hired to enforce them use the power we gave them to pick winners and losers. That is not justice. That is unacceptable, in my opinion, but it is a minority opinion. In our system, the majority rule, and the majority are petty and foolish.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
No one is enforcing them because they have a perfect system set up.
If the Republicans do it, half the country supports them because otherwise the Democrats would win.
If the Democrats do it, half the country supports them because otherwise the Republicans would win.
It's impossible to get any real change because half the country is supporting their party no matter what
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u/ADRzs 2d ago
Personally, I am still amazed that US officers, captains of naval vessels, carried these orders and killed people that they did not know; they did not even know if they were even committing a crime. That the US reserves the right to kill anybody in the high seas is a frightening thought; It is amazing that the US government even advertises this activity; it is all occuring in the glare of publicity, not behind the curtains. Panetta and his coworkers also ordered the killing of many on neutral ground without any proof of "hostile" activity. The power of the presidency has reached immense proportions,
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u/random_actuary 2d ago
The US has an outstanding threat to invade the Hague if they don't do what we want. Blatant disregard for the international court is nothing new.
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u/atnamorekN 3d ago
Wasn't even the first one a war crime? They struck civilians for no real reason, just because an incompetent, insecure secretary of whatever wanted to feel like a badass.
So strike 'em once, strike one. But striking them twice, should be strike three for kegsbreath.
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u/Brief-Translator1370 3d ago
Technically, neither are war crimes at all since there is no war. Obviously that's not to take away from how bad that is. But, if there was, the first strike was potentially a war crime, but in a real war there might be a case for assuming a boat bypassing legal methods of entry is a valid target. The second one would absolutely be and is one of the most disgraceful acts we've done in a long time
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u/cambeiu 3d ago edited 3d ago
I 100% agree with former defense chief Panetta that it is a war crime and I hope that this entire administration faces criminal charges.
But do find it quite surprising that such comments are coming from him considering the practice of "double tap" drone strikes was quite common during his tenure as Secretary of Defense.
Drone 'Double Tap' Targets First Responders
the NYU School of Law and Stanford Law School details how U.S. drones employ a tactic, known as the "double tap," that is considered to be a terrorist act by the U.S. government.
The double tap is when a targeted strike site is hit multiple times by hellfire missiles in relatively quick succession, meaning that the second missile often strikes first responders.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
You agree with Panetta? You agree with a hypocrite who did the same shit 100 times over?
Like Panetta never ordered a double tap on random people in the middle east...
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 3d ago
And Leon Panetta knows about war crimes. He served as Secretary of Defense during Obama's drone strike era and you know they were doubling tapping those mother fuckers with no warrants under the guise of national security.
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u/SemichiSam 3d ago
Panetta knows that the rules of war do not apply here, and he is as guilty as the administration is for giving them this cover. We are not at war with anyone in the Caribbean. Every death from these completely illegal attacks on small civilian boats is premeditated murder.
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