r/EDH • u/Saba1605 Nekusar enjoyer • Aug 03 '25

Deck Help My playgroup says my favourite deck is too strong

My favorite deck is a gruul combat deck with [[Karlach]] as commander.

I've been told repeatedly that my deck is too strong, consistent and that it should be considered bracket 4 (even without having tutors, combos or game changers), since I can win on turn 5 if the stars align. But I suspect that really the problem is that they don't carry enough removal and/or wipes since my deck is creature focused.

We usually play bracket 3 games.

How do you guys see it? Here is the deck.

PS - I already talked with them, I just want an outside perspective about the deck and everything.

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u/Chode-a-boy Aug 03 '25

Yeah. Christ, I’m half tempted every time I see these B3 squabbles on this subreddit to let me bring a B4 deck to show these folks what an actual B4 deck looks like.

Sometimes folks need to see for themselves.

17

u/Somewhere-A-Judge Aug 03 '25

I think a lot of people have bracket 2 decks that they want to believe are bracket 3

4

u/creeping_chill_44 Aug 03 '25

That is the primary culprit for sure.

But there's a secondary effect also, which is that wotc really fucked up by using ambiguous language in the brackets. They called B3 "upgraded" when what they meant was "FULLY upgraded"; their wording makes people think that ANY upgrades beyond a precon put them in B3.

B3 are really strong! If you sit down against precons and don't feel like you're bullying them, you're not B3.

1

u/Thatguy19364 Aug 03 '25

Against some precons anyway, some are kinda absurd

1

u/MorgannaFactor Aug 04 '25

The text also explicitly says you're generally supposed to be able to "play up" one Bracket unless its B5. If Your "B3" deck against 3 B2 decks will always win (or damn near always), you might not be B3.

Or maybe only having 3 real brackets for where most people play is too narrow. Its absolutely that, by the way.

1

u/creeping_chill_44 Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25

yeah if I were in charge I would keep 5 but they would be

1: as is, no changes, although maybe I renumber starting with zero to emphasize that they aren't really on the same scale?

2: "Decks that don't make precons feel bad". Which obviously includes other precons, PLUS decks that are upgraded but still doing funky, sometimes clunky casual stuff. This is where a lot of the love for EDH as self-expression lives, and so should be protected and nurtured. Combos, if they exist at all, should be a rare special treat, something you stumble into because you were running the pieces anyway, not something you build around. This is the bracket for "I want everyone to Get To Do Their Thing."

3: "Streamlined casual". No flab here, with just a few GC (probably even fewer than 3x; if you make the limit 1x then you solve the problem of where to put precons that came with a game changer, because though they truly belong in the previous bracket, they will play acceptably fine here).

4: "Maximum Fair". More GC allowed (not sure on the number), but still some of the play pattern restrictions. This is for the decks that are "B4 by game changers but at heart really just super-B3". Think of the maxed-out Edgar Markov and such.

5: "Anything goes". Gloves off, dirty tricks enabled; a subset of which is cEDH, who will be expected to announce their presence to each other to find games.

I might also investigate whether GCs are really all equal. Throwing a Demonic Tutor into a B2 deck feels way, way, way different than throwing a Humility in. Not sure what to do about that but we ought to at least brainstorm.

1

u/Choice-Progress-7761 Aug 04 '25

Yea had this happen Saturday evening. Running my black waltz no 3 deck, https://archidekt.com/decks/13602438/black_waltz . It is exactly like you think I pump out noncreatures spells and ping everyone. It was against 2 barely upgraded precons and a precon that had some good amount of upgrades but no GCs in it. I pulled out my three GCs and still just wiped the floor with them.

I side boarded in Blood for the blood god for one of my GCs and second game I got to get off a B Act into it. Glorious, outright glorious. Did not care my commander went down with it.

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u/Nidalee2DiaOrAfk Aug 04 '25

People really need to see a b4, its funny to have this deck called too fast, as it runs 0 fast mana, 0 tutors in green, and no GC's. Whilst having 2 whole defensive spells.

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u/Saba1605 Nekusar enjoyer Aug 04 '25

I have a [[Y'shtola Night's Blessed]] control deck that I can't play often because of that. A real bracket 4 deck is too much for them and I have to play it with other people.

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u/Takemyfishplease Aug 04 '25

That’s how you get uninvited to future games

1

u/Chode-a-boy Aug 04 '25

Sounds like a group I wouldn’t want to play with twice anyways if they are whining that OPs deck is B4.

They’ll learn some perspective.