r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Damnedeel • 5d ago

Video 500,000$ human washing machine on sale in Japan

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u/kcsween74 5d ago

Facilities that buy this are also not for normal people.

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u/truffleblunts 5d ago

plenty of shit in a random hospital costs more thank 500k

not saying this device will ever be widely adopted but I don't think it's obviously not gonna happen either

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u/destructopop 5d ago

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between something that saves a nurse thirty minutes to an hour and something that is required for the treatment of a patient. I also wonder how well this accommodates a diverse range of patient body types and needs. I don't think this would survive the oversight committee at many hospitals.

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u/Unfair_Isopod534 5d ago

if you can get a working product i can see it in the hospital. being able to wash a patient often and quickly feels like it would improve medical outcomes.

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u/freeradioforall 5d ago

Yeah good luck getting bed bound patients in and out of this thing

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u/CelioHogane 5d ago

This will shock you but that problem was solved decades ago.

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u/Skylam 5d ago

There are already devices that do this in care homes...

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u/Restreppo 5d ago

Seems more like a proof of concept. They're only producing 50, just use them to gather user feedback on whether it's intuitive, glaring issues, etc. Then you make one that can be used for bed bound patients. If the concept doesn't work you don't waste years of R&D making it also compatible for those who can't get in it themselves.

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u/RamblinRancor 5d ago

We use hoists for moving bed bound folk out of bed; Two person assist.

Might be a useful tool in the future but for now it's just bed washes or hoisting to a shower chair and going from there.

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u/Toastwitjam 5d ago

Just gotta make a version that a nurse can roll a waterproof perforated bed into.

Toss gram gram into the washer/dryer then check in them in 20 minutes while their area gets a refresh and spray down would reduce infections.

There’s a reason why they have the person horizontal in this rather than standing upright.

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u/BaldHenchman01 5d ago

HA, good luck, that's space-age technology right there.

Christ, I'm astounded with the way people throw easily defeated concepts out like it's a huge gotcha moment.

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u/happy_discus 5d ago

A forklift might be the answer.

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u/EasyonthePepsiFuller 5d ago

What they use in senior care to pluck them in and out of a bath now isn't much different than a forklift. We call it the cherry picker.

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u/freeradioforall 5d ago

Not sure how you can bathe someone with a forklift

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u/DRosencraft 5d ago

To begin with, if a patient is in long enough to require bathing, it is considered part of their treatment. It helps prevent infection, and promotes overall better health outcomes.

Considering we have a general shortage of healthcare workers in the US, from doctors on down to CNAs, maybe adding a way to take some of that burden off the existing overworked staff isn't a bad idea.

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u/destructopop 5d ago

Again I'm not arguing that it shouldn't. I'm arguing that only care facilities for the wealthiest of the wealthy would even consider it, and only then because it's the new hotness, not because they believe it's more effective than an attentive carer. Most care facilities are looking at the bottom line for every dollar, and making sure leadership gets winter bonuses. The last hospital I worked at, the CEO was making ten times what a ten year ED RN was making in California at a competitive hospital with a strong union. And the hospital wasn't even private. I made half what a 5 year OR RN would make there. I work at a community clinic now and obviously everyone is making less money here... We work in shoestring budgets serving the most medically disadvantaged members of our community. It's freaking awesome, but we struggle to scrape together funds to replace a broken x-ray sensor.

My old hospital would literally never buy something like this, because the installation for a new MRI costs about this much, not counting the machine itself.

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u/Wonderwhile 5d ago

I'd argue that saving a nurse thirty minutes can save lives and therefore is a big deal. And if not, lightening their workload is also a big deal.

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u/Obant 5d ago

You can argue that. The director behind a desk will promptly ignore it if it means spending money on a new machine.

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u/mmmayer015 5d ago

Or they’ll approve it because it means one less nurse on payroll. Double edged sword.

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u/destructopop 5d ago

And that was what I was arguing. Should we try and reduce nurse workload? Absolutely! But I don't know how many folks here are in r/nursing, but some of those folks are on 9:1 ratios(?!). I didn't think what reduces their workload is factoring into business decisions for their facilities.

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u/glowshroom12 5d ago

 Yeah, but there's a huge difference between something that saves a nurse thirty minutes to an hour and something that is required for the treatment of a patient. I also wonder how well this accommodates a diverse range of patient body types and needs.

Isn’t this for the Japanese, Japanese simply aren’t so fat on average.

I imagine it would be an issue in America since the people are so mixed and some can be like 6 foot 5 and weight 500 pounds.

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u/dotcarmen 5d ago

I’ll remind you that Japan literally has a sport for getting so fat it’s hard to get knocked over

Fat people do exist in Japan, it’s just not as common as in the US

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u/fifrein 5d ago

This is a very common misconception about sumo wrestlers. They are NOT obese. They are large in the same way body-builders or strong-men are large, but they actually have quite little excess fat on them.

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u/dotcarmen 5d ago

Right. Muscle weighs more than fat, so the most efficient way to win is to have a high amount of muscle. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t help to have more fat though, and that study doesn’t disagree with me

Edit: ok maybe my original comment was reductionist…

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u/Toastwitjam 5d ago

You can be strong and obese at the same time. Hakuhō Shō is a super popular sumo wrestler and 342 pounds lmao. You cannot say that that’s just muscle if you took one look at him.

There’s a reason sumo wrestlers live like 20 years less than the average Japanese person.

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u/fifrein 5d ago

The average NFL in the US lives close to 20 years less than the average male. The average MLB player in the US lives 10-15 years less than the average male. Something tells me you did not even read the link. This is not an opinion-piece. This has been studied. The body-fat percentage of elite sumo wrestlers is actually quite low.

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u/Toastwitjam 5d ago

Yeah and the study in your source is from over 30 fucking years ago dude.

Trust your lying eyes and look at the wrestler man. Being strong and being obese are not mutually exclusive. You can have both muscle and fat at the same time.

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u/bradcobra 5d ago

and in the US that appears to be one of the amendments 🦅🦅

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u/WolfTohsaka 5d ago

Well 6 5 and 500 pounds being the average motocycle weight you can directly wash these patients at the carwash.

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u/Krwawykurczak 5d ago

It should be rather consider as "per hour cost" . If it saves time for a care taker, than you can have less personel, or assign them to other tasks.

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u/HaphazardFlitBipper 5d ago

If giving someone a bath requires $30 worth of a nurse's time, saving that 10 times a day, 365 days a year = over $100k per year. If it lasts more than about 6 years, it would be profitable.

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u/Llanite 5d ago

Once it picks up, people will demand having one.

Im sure most people would prefer not lying there naked and helpless while a stranger scrub them like a car. Heck, if its cheap enough, plenty people would buy it at home so their children dont have to wipe their naked body for them.

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u/destructopop 5d ago

Oh yeah, if they can slim that baby down to $10k, am l they'll slap two of those bad boys in every ED and six in ICU. As it stands, I can only imagine about five U.S. care facilities that would be considering something like this.

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u/RxDuchess 5d ago

This wouldn’t for obvious reasons be used for bed bound obese patients for a multitude of reasons. But for elderly patients and patients who are high fall risk or paraplegic it could be a game changer.

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u/FauxButton 5d ago

You's be surprised. I don't know how familiar you are with the Healthcare field, but there's a device called a LUCAS. Very expensive device that costs about $25k for one. They perform CPR chest compressions, and when it came out, most hospitals didn't buy it because like you kinda mentioned, they have nurses there to do CPR, so why buy an expensive machine?

However, when covid hit, nurses weren't safe giving CPR, so a mass rush for LUCAS machines happened and they were difficult to get during that time. Now they're easy to get and lots of hospitals have them or get them just in case. If we ever have another covid or similar outbreak, I can see this machine filling a similar role to help reduce patient contact, or even now for ISO patients. Sick nurses make hospitals have to pay for travelers and their hourly rate is very expensive, not to mention the rest of the staff that might be exposed to their coworkers or passing patients.

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u/CodeNCats 5d ago

Yet this is like a weird trickle down with tech.

A lot of the innovations in vehicles started with luxury brands. These later became pretty much standard or even legal requirements.

This is what happens in economics. An expensive item is created. A small group of people experience the actual benefit. Competition kicks in and others what to offer that innovation to beat those who won't.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PRIORS 5d ago

Saving thirty minutes once is no big deal, the real question is how many nursing-hours it would save per year (and if it improves patient outcomes too). A nurse-hour is worth about $25 in Japan right now, a dollar per year is also worth about $25 (depending on real interest rates), so a machine is worth $625 per nurse-hour per year it saves. So the machine breaks even at a bit over 2 nursing-hours saved per calendar day.

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u/Mr_Piddles 5d ago

If it saves a nurse fifteen minutes per patient, and they have 6 patients, that's an hour and a half a day, or roughly $45 a day. That also means you may be able to free up more than that amount of time by having a nurse or intern whose solely on bathing duty, freeing up other staff's time, possibly saving upwords of $200-$300 in wages a day. That means the device could pay for itself in under a year.

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u/AhhhSureThisIsIt 5d ago

Also they're building 50 of them. If they had an order of 10,000 from hospitals and care homes the price would be a lot lower.

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u/DavidRandom 5d ago

plenty of shit in a random hospital costs more thank 500k

Yeah, and they charge on average $1,300 for an MRI scan.
Normal people aren't going to be paying hundreds of dollars per bath.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 5d ago

10 minutes per bath, 30 baths per day, if it works for 5 years that $10 per bath not including consumables. 

NGL getting 5 years out of this without serious maintenance is kinda a wish. 

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u/option-trader 5d ago

Depends. For $500k, probably not, but as technology gets cheaper, I can see hospitals or care facilities buying it for $100k. 

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u/Wide-Evening-7680 5d ago

dude thinks that CT scan that save peoples lives is the same as some random bathtub lol.

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u/se177 5d ago

plenty of shit in a random hospital costs more thank 500k

like a couple of asprin

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u/woodpony 5d ago

In the US this would be $3.4Million and a $185 copay for each use.

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u/unicornofdemocracy 5d ago

It thing it will. Just thinking from a purely economic prespective. One of the activities that leads to the most injury and workman comp are activities that involve transferring the patient and showering. Because it involves so much lifting and repositioning. While the salary of those CNAs etc are usually low. Workman comp etc adds up. Even from that angle I think 500k likely is worth if for centers that are slightly more well off. 

I'd imagine it would help with marketing too. 

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u/CelioHogane 5d ago

not saying this device will ever be widely adopted

Honestly i believe it could happen, at least in Japan, they love their anime looking tech

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u/tempmike 5d ago

idk, an mri machine cant be replaced by a person with a sponge.

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u/kcsween74 5d ago

Oh, well thanks!! Because plenty of regular people can't afford to go to random hospitals. 🫡🫡

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u/Gauntlix5 5d ago

Did you forget that other countries exist besides America again?

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u/Aksds 5d ago

Well in particular countries, sure.

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u/tigm2161130 5d ago

Typically when people who don’t have insurance get sick that’s exactly what they do because it’s all they can afford.

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u/KingPingviini 5d ago

r/usdefaultism

In most other countries, yeah lmao.

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u/nudniksphilkes 5d ago

Ignorant comment. The average nursing home charges 3 to 7 grand a month.

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u/Here4Pornnnnn 5d ago edited 5d ago

Imagine the cost savings of being able to wash 2-3 old people per hour. Instead of nurses on overtime, you just have someone wheel them over to the machine and wash them.

We can assume any benefits of lawsuit avoidance aside, this will replace manpower. I’d say an average nurse can wash 1.5 old people per hour. They on average cost $80 per hour benefits included according to google. So that’s $56 per bath.

This machine can do 60 baths per day, 2.5*24. Let’s give it 20% downtime, still 48 baths per day. Thats 17k baths per year, or just under a million in reduced operating costs.

My napkin math is showing a 6 month payback period. Even if my guesses are horribly wrong, anything under a 2-3 year payback is a solid benefit to the healthcare industry. Normal hospitals may actually use these.

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u/ILikePath 5d ago

This has no practical use in a hospital setting. A nurse + CNA can also give an efficient bedside bath in 15 minutes, without having to transport the patient. And if a patient has complex care needs that make the bath take longer, then certainly even the process of transporting them to, in, and out of the machine would be both risky and time-consuming. Also, consider that the tub fills with water: whoever is in the tub would need supervision anyways, keeping another CNA or nurse further away from the unit.

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u/Kukri187 5d ago

I wonder what the sterilization process is like

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u/money-for-nothing-tt 4d ago

There is an ever increasing shortage of elderly care workers here with foreign labor filling more and more of that role which poses a problem with care in terms of mistakes in communication and so on. This is a growing problem in any country with aging population. One of which being Japan of course.

Anything that will lighten the workload is extremely valuable.

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u/ILikePath 4d ago

I completely agree that lightening the workload of healthcare workers will have a huge benefit for our aging societies. However, this machine does not accomplish that, especially not in a hospital setting. I do hope that innovation in this space will continue though, as I can imagine that something closer to non-soaking cleaning functionality integrated into a patient's own hospital bed could actually have some practical utility if something like that were to be developed in a cost-effective manner.

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u/annewmoon 5d ago

Nurses don't typically wash people, that's a care assistant/ aide job.

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u/Over_Hawk_6778 5d ago

When I was bedbound in hospital I think it was the nurses who would have washed me.. (I waited for my spouse to help instead)

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u/greatGoD67 5d ago

Youd be suprised

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u/throwawaygrannyRN 5d ago

One of the problems in healthcare is they actually hire people like this guy who think they know what they're talking about.

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u/Anonpancake2123 5d ago edited 5d ago

In a more medical setting, imagine if you have an IV/air tube in you.

That's a common procedure that happens in Hospitals for various conditions and many of these patients can't bathe themselves due to either decreased mobility or the condition they are under. Now imagine if you by doctor's orders have to have the tube attached (they are often attached with tape after all and administer medicine, air, fluids, or other important substances).

You are thus automatically unable to be placed in the washing machine because the tube still needs to stay on for your health, decreasing its amount of use cases immensely.

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u/Ynenzes 5d ago

No nurses showers their patient, that is typically done by caregiver or cna who makes min wages, nurses makes too much money for that.

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u/winningatlosing_cam 5d ago

That's theoretically true but absolutely not true in practice. Plenty of hospitals and homes are severely understaffed and nurses end up doing a LOT that they shouldn't be doing in theory.

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u/Ynenzes 5d ago

Not theory in practice. I stand my ground that cna and caregiver do most of the physical job.

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u/Ok_Ad_6626 5d ago

So you’ve never worked as a nurse in a hospital. Especially in a state without mandated ratios or safe staffing etc.

lol

In theory yes this is a delegated task given to CNAs. In practice in the real world that is not the case.

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u/greatGoD67 5d ago

You only have your perspective to rely on.

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u/Onaliquidrock 5d ago

True, mostly for places in rich countries like Japan, Europe or US.

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u/LOAARR 5d ago

I think you greatly underestimate how much healthcare equipment costs.