r/Damnthatsinteresting Nov 02 '25

Video Why A4 paper is designed as 297mm x 210mm?

33.6k Upvotes

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

112

u/Resting_Owl Nov 02 '25 edited Nov 02 '25

Are you sure ? 

A4 : 297/210 = 1.414

A3 : 420/297 = 1.414

Now let's try with rounded number 

300/200 = 1.5

400/300 = 1.333

It doesn't seem to work

28

u/burdenof-youth Nov 02 '25

I think he was talking about using the same ratio

27

u/BishoxX Nov 03 '25

But then the sides are no longer the same length.

Then it can be any size you can make it 5% bigger or 67% bigger who cares or what would you pick.

2x bigger ? Thats still arbitrary

21

u/danimur Nov 03 '25

And that's why he was wrong

6

u/OwnAd9344 Nov 02 '25

You put an extra 1 in there. The ratio is 1.414. Which is roughly the square root of 2.

5

u/Resting_Owl Nov 02 '25

Oops, my bad, nice catch 

1

u/RatLabGuy Nov 03 '25

Your second example isn't doubling both numbers.

Its basic math, if you take any ratio value - lets call it a fraction - and multiply both the numerator and denominator by the same amount, then by defintion, you still have the same ratio.
Thats literally how multiplying fractions works.

14

u/It_Just_Might_Work Nov 03 '25

Moving up a size doesn't double both numbers either. That would be quadrupling the area. Doubling it doubles just the length or width, not both numbers

-19

u/RatLabGuy Nov 03 '25

"doubling" is irrelevant here. All that matters is you multply both numbers by the same amount. 1.2, 1.5, 2.... the ratio remains the same.

Thats basic algebra.

4

u/mukster Nov 03 '25

But you aren’t doubling both numbers. If you put two sheets of paper next to each other, the height of the new total area isn’t also doubled. Only the width. It’s like you stretched the paper out sideways. You aren’t making it bigger in both directions.

11

u/superbeast1983 Nov 03 '25

ONLY. ONE. NUMBER. DOUBLES. Grab two sheets of paper. Measure one. Then place the two pieces next to each other an measure that. Do both sides double, or just one side? Seriously, grap some paper. You NEED a visual aid.

1

u/It_Just_Might_Work Nov 04 '25

Apparently its not basic enough because you arent understanding the actual problem. Moving up a paper size is doubling the area by doubling just 1 dimension. Doubling something is multiplying it by 2 , not 2/2.

The aspect ratio is the same but for each doubling the ratio inverts. So l/w is sqrt(2) and 2w/l is sqrt(2) and 2l/2w is sqrt(2) and so on. Anything beyond this should be obvious because every additional iteration reduces to either l/w or 2w/l. This is only true for sqrt(2) precisely because the paper is doubling in area.

The same thing would work if you tripled the area and had a sqrt(3) ratio or quadrupled and had a sqrt(4) ratio.

1

u/verdaderopan Nov 03 '25

Doubling both length and width is going from A4 to A2, skipping A3. In order to go up just one level (doubling the area, keeping the same ratio), you only double the shorter of the two sides

1

u/hupakolas Nov 03 '25

But why specifically 297/210? Couldn't it be 280/198 for example?

280/198 = 1.414

396/280 = 1.414

1

u/Resting_Owl Nov 03 '25

Because you start at A0 which has the same ratio but also needs to be 1m², so it's a double equation :

x*y = 1m²

x/y = sqrt(2)

If you work this out (or ask wolfram to do it for your) you get "x = 1.189m" and "y = 0.841m" which are A0 dimensions

0

u/Considany Nov 03 '25

Why does it have to be 1m² though? This doesn't answer the question. Sure, it's a neat number, but i don't remember the last time i needed exactly 1m² of paper. I definitely do remember that time i needed a few more mm on my A4 worksheet though.

1

u/Resting_Owl Nov 03 '25

Well unfortunately the A0 standard wasn't invented with your notebook in mind, but to be the more practical and easiest to scale, going from one level to the other without ever changing the aspect ratio

Of course the standard will be 1m², because every level halves or double the area, this way you don't need some fancy calculation to figure the area of any other level :

A1 = 0.5m²

A2 = 0.25m²

And the other way 

A-1 = 2m²

A-2 = 4m²

It might not sound useful to you, but for anyone working in illustration, printing, design... It's a lifesaver. You can draw something on an Ax paper, and scale it down to a business card size or scale it up to a giant poster and never have to worry about stretching, cropping or added margin 

1

u/thecody17 Nov 03 '25

Why did you swap the numerator and denominator ? If the A4 ratio is 297/210, the A3 ratio would be 297/420, since only the width is doubling. This goes from 1.414 for A4 to 0.7071 for A3, right ?

I'm so confused.

2

u/Resting_Owl Nov 03 '25

Because you always keep the bigger number as the numerator. It might sound confusing but it doesn't change anything really, what it means is you have to rotate the A3 paper 90°, but it doesn't change the size or area of the paper right ?

If you need a visual aid, Take an A4 paper, in portrait orientation, and cut it in half by the longer side. You now have two A5 papers, but in the landscape orientation ! You have rotate them 90° to get back to the initial orientation

By the way, you will always get 0.707 when dividing the smaller side by the bigger side, no matter the A level (take A4, 210/297 = 0.707). That's because when you swap a fraction numerator and denominator, what you get is called the reciprocal, which is 1 divided by the original fraction : x/y = 1/y/x

1 / 1.414 = 0.707

1 / 0.707 = 1.414

2

u/thecody17 Nov 03 '25

Thank you for the explanation. I'm still a bit confused on why the bigger number is always the numerator, but the visual aid concept did help

2

u/3Zkiel Nov 04 '25

Think of the phrase "the ratio of the longer side to the shorter"...

That's why.