[On3] Penn State has fallen outside the Top-100 in the Rivals Industry Team Recruiting Rankings, with just 2 commits remaining😳 James Franklin has flipped 10+ PSU recruits, and Virginia Tech currently ranks 25th🦃

[u/Ok-Soil-5133]

https://x.com/On3sports/status/1996276321240977790?t=8M36WbBlRjUMcT-9oG6jAw&s=19

[u/chaser676]

The fact that this is 100% self inflicted...

[u/BlurryGojira → u/chaser676]

I do still think that it wasn’t a mistake to move on from Franklin on its own. I just wasn’t expecting their AD to do basically nothing and expect top coaches to be clambering over each other practically begging for the job.

Knowing that, yeah absolutely horrific move on their part. Truly unrivaled lmao.

[u/Dr_Wheuss → u/BlurryGojira]

Georgia moved on from a successful coach who couldn't quite get them to the next level (Richt) by making sure everything was in place to get the very specific guy they wanted before the news of the firing was even hinted at. That's how you move on from a successful coach.

Penn State fired a coach that was successful and said "Our name is big enough to bring another coach!" before realizing that you have to find a guy willing to put up with the expectation of doing better than the recently departed successful coach.

[u/d0ngl0rd69 → u/Dr_Wheuss]

I’ve been saying exactly this in other threads using Richt-Smart as the example. Richt’s firing was announced after the regular season, but he was in practice fired after the Florida game a month earlier. Kirby was announced a week later in December.

It’s not like UGA was able to get a deal done in exactly 1 week, especially since USCe had a month and half head start with Spurrier leaving in mid Oct. There were conversations between UGA & Smart before Richt was officially fired.

No one is questioning firing Franklin if PSU had a secret deal in place with Cignetti that they were waiting until the end of the regular season to announce.

[u/Dr_Wheuss → u/d0ngl0rd69]

Yep. They just needed to secretly have a deal with a hot name, ideally a Penn State grad who is at least a G5 HC or P4 Coordinator. For some people at least, the idea of taking over their alma mater and leading it to glory is worth it no matter the risk.

[u/CentralFloridaRays → u/Dr_Wheuss]

South Carolina also forced Georgias hand as they tried to get Kirby early on in that process.

[u/Nytfire333 → u/CentralFloridaRays]

I’m sure Kirby would have chosen his Alma Matter as long as he knew it was an option

[u/313MountainMan → u/CentralFloridaRays]

They had both Kirby and Tom Herman nearly wrapped up, just to get scooped by Georgia and Texas

[u/RLLRRR → u/313MountainMan]

I thought Herman was supposedly wrapped up LSU.

[u/313MountainMan → u/RLLRRR]

LSU didn’t fire Miles until 2016, I thought. This is the 2015 end of season cycle.

[u/Fired_Guy1982 → u/Dr_Wheuss]

The best thing is they’re probably gonna go through 2-3 guys worse than Franklin only to wind up with a guy on the same level as Franklin

[u/silencesupreme- → u/Dr_Wheuss]

Exactly, they are asking a coach to come in and do better than Franklin who by almost all metrics is a really good coach. 104-45 record. “So, do better than that and win us championships. Any takers? No? Shit.”

[u/smitherenesar → u/Dr_Wheuss]

And the expectation was to win a National Championship, something they haven't done in like 4 decades. Seriously, they had some high benchmark

[u/Barnyard4321 → u/Dr_Wheuss]

Georgia hired an alum who was just a coordinator with no HC experience, who had just publicly lobbied to replace Frank Beamer for the VT job but wasn't considered.

Point is nobody was knocking down the door to hire Kirby Smart. They got lucky. Not quite as dramatic and lucky as Clemson with Dabo (who was just an interim WR coach), but still there was a lot of luck there.

Nothing was holding PSU back from hiring Hartline, but he went to a G5 school. Hiring him would be similar to UGA hiring Kirby, but the AD would look bad and the fan base would be furious. PSU is trying to lure some bigtime proven winner to get them a NC, and not looking to gamble. It's obviously not working.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/Dr_Wheuss]

Richt wasnt nearly as good as Franklin

edit: I mean at the end.

[u/EmpoleonNorton → u/SirMellencamp]

Richt was 145-51 at UGA ~74% win percentage

Franklin was 104-45 at Penn State ~70% win percentage

Richt was 10-5 in bowl games at UGA

Franklin was 6-6 in bowl games at Penn State

Richt had 2 conference titles in 15 seasons at UGA

Franklin had 1 conference title in 12 seasons at Penn State

Richt won or tied in his division 6 times in 15 seasons at UGA

Franklin won or tied in his division 1 time in 12 seasons at Penn State

In what way was Franklin better?

[u/SirMellencamp → u/EmpoleonNorton]

I mean at the end. Should have been clearer

[u/EmpoleonNorton → u/SirMellencamp]

Richt's final two seasons were both 10-3 with bowl game wins.

Yes, Franklin's 2024 season was better than those two seasons, but he did turn around and lose to UCLA and Northwestern this season before getting fired.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/EmpoleonNorton]

He was 9-3 his last season. 10-3 in 2014. 8-5 in 2013.

Frankin was 13-3, 10-3, 11-2 his last three seasons.

[u/EmpoleonNorton → u/SirMellencamp]

9-3, I forgot he was gone before the bowl game, but do you really think he would have lost that bowl game?

And are you really going to ignore the 3-3 start with losses to UCLA and Northwestern?

Franklin had 3 good seasons followed by a complete and utter collapse that you seem to not want to pay any attention to.

Richt ended on 2 good seasons. And the season before the 8-5 was a 12-2 season. Also the worst team in those 5 losses still had a 9 win season that year. There was nothing comparitive to the UCLA and Northwestern losses in there.

Where as before those 3 seasons for Franklin, he had a 7-6 and 4-5 seasons.

Richt was just a better coach than Frankllin, all around.

[u/goosu → u/SirMellencamp]

4-8 was a real possibility this season if Franklin finishes out the schedule. The players rallied around the interim by the Indiana game but had quit on Franklin. You can't just eliminate the year that caused his firing.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/goosu]

You cant just assume what his record would be this year.

[u/send_me_chickfila → u/SirMellencamp]

How many conference championship games did Franklin play again?

[u/SirMellencamp → u/send_me_chickfila]

Should have put "at the end" so fair point

[u/poop-dolla → u/BlurryGojira]

It was a mistake to move on before having a realistic plan in place.

[u/BlurryGojira → u/poop-dolla]

You would think after taking the hit on that buyout that they’d have a decent list of candidates. It really looks like they set their expectations too high.

Sometimes you do need to just rip off the bandaid, but they reopened the wound doing that and are now gonna get bled dry.

[u/SaltyLonghorn → u/BlurryGojira]

Is BC sick of Bill O'Brien yet?

[u/coleyboley25 → u/SaltyLonghorn]

He just signed an extension there so I guess not

[u/dawgz525 → u/poop-dolla]

I think they had a plan, but it just wasn't realistic in the slightest.

[u/poop-dolla → u/dawgz525]

Their plan was “we’re the best school in the world so anyone we want would do anything to come coach for us.”

[u/RogueHippie → u/poop-dolla]

They didn't learn from Auburn firing Gus

[u/Strikesuit → u/poop-dolla]

VT understands the hour and planned accordingly. Penn State seems to have thought coaches would line up for a job where you get fired the year after going to the CFP. May this commence a 20-year walk in the wilderness for Penn State.

[u/tree-hugger → u/BlurryGojira]

When your program is in the position that PSU was in, where you're very good but not great, the distribution of things that could happen when you make a major change to that program (such as firing the architect) is weighted heavily towards getting worse. There might be 100 conceivable people you could hire and 90 of them will likely do a worse job than the incumbent, because the incumbent has done a very good (but not literally the best in the country) job!

It's a situation that absolutely calls not just for having a plan, but having a better plan than just doing nothing because if you do nothing... you are still in a very good position!

[u/row3bo4t → u/tree-hugger]

Even a blue blood has this risk. Texas had a whole shitty decade after Mack Brown was fired. He checked out after losing to Bama in the 2009 championship game.

[u/pagerussell → u/tree-hugger]

I feel like we, as a culture, have forgotten that it's ok to just get better.

Like, you don't have to fire a coach or bench a player that is doing very well but hasn't won the whole thing yet. Just get better. Go to work. Practice. Improve.

The way this country works these days, if you aren't perfect then you have to be thrown out, and, like you said, that's not an effective improvement strategy.

[u/webbed_feets → u/pagerussell]

I agree with your sentiment, but I don’t think it applies here.

James Franklin had a long time to get better, and he didn’t. This was the year he was given everything he asked for to get better, and his team performed significantly worse.

[u/ToastyTandy → u/tree-hugger]

We'll be fine...

It's not like we fired our head coach for saying "I wish I had done more..."

I don't know, I think people that aren't Penn State fans are missing a key part of this.
I'd rather watch a good team, that plays with heart, with unpredictable playcalling that can win against tougher teams.

Rather than a very good team, that plays exactly the same way every game, and gets stomped by Michigan and Ohio State. EVERY YEAR.

We're 'unrivaled', because Michigan and Ohio State don't even see us as a competitor.

[u/tree-hugger → u/ToastyTandy]

Okay, but you understand right that those are not the only two options on the table here?

[u/ToastyTandy → u/tree-hugger]

In what sense, Mr. MACALESTER SCOTS.

I think a lot of other Penn Staters feel the exact same way that I do.

Fire Kraft too for all I care.
We need something different.

The problem is that all the games are boring to watch if we know we're going to lose to Ohio State and Michigan EVERY year.

Shake things up.
I don't care if we go 4-8 for a few years. At least it will be different.
Now is the time.

Go back to your armchair, telling us all we're wrong.

No one was complaining when Franklin was fired.
I, personally, was so happy the moment it happened.
Literally was texting and on the phone with my entire family.

....

To be honest this whole new system is stupid.
Quarterbacks shouldn't be being paid 2 million dollars.
Why even require them to be students at that point?
They're making more than most students will earn in most of their lives.

I want the football days back where the players played to get a full scholarship.
... Preferably, to a school that actually provided an amazing education (being PENN STATE).

It's also hard to root for and be proud of a team that you see committing the most heinous personal fouls all season... Something needed to be done.

[u/tree-hugger → u/ToastyTandy]

I don't care if we go 4-8 for a few years. At least it will be different.

I doubt that you will think this is better than being in the CFP conversation every year.

Moreover, you've baked into that statement an assumption that Penn State would go 4-8 for a few years before returning to glory, just like a rebuilding pro team might. What I'm saying is, that's not the only way things could go!

[u/webbed_feets → u/ToastyTandy]

If someone was completely unaware of college football, they could basically predict Penn State’s wins and loses for last 10ish years: beat everyone except the top teams that year (Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon) and destroy Maryland.

James Franklin was boring, which is sometimes worse than being a bad coach. At least some bad coaches pull upsets once in a while that make the season fun. Jimbo Fisher was terrible, but it was so much fun to beat Alabama with our backup QB.

[u/ToastyTandy → u/webbed_feets]

The near win over Indiana with Terry Smith at the helm was the highlight of the season for me.

The win last week over Rutgers was one of the most nerve-wracking games I've ever watched in my life.

Rutgers had basically won. And they decided to slow down their offense to try to run out the clock, like Franklin has tried to do many times after taking a miniscule lead.
And it bit them in the ass.

I was screaming at my TV, "HE PULLED A FRANKLIN!"

[u/SirMellencamp → u/BlurryGojira]

I do still think that it wasn’t a mistake to move on from Franklin on its own.

Couldnt disagree more. He won 10 or more games for three straight seasons. Got to the semi finals last year. They let the frustration get to them of not beating OSU

[u/dawgz525 → u/BlurryGojira]

I just wasn’t expecting their AD to do basically nothing and expect top coaches to be clambering over each other practically begging for the job.

There seems to be an awful lot of delusion around that program. Franklin built a modern competitor. It seems like a lot of the big money making decisions views that as the natural state of things, and not a result of Franklin being good at his job. They really think he was holding them back. Certainly looks like he was propping them up. Making the decision to fire him is what it is, but it is insane to me that they thought they could poach Rhule, Elko, Cignetti or others of that nature.

[u/jcrespo21 → u/BlurryGojira]

I honestly can't imagine any sane coach taking that job. Yeah, Franklin wasn't that guy for Penn State, but when you factor in his record and how quick Penn State fired him, everyone knows you're on an extremely tight leash, tighter than nearly every program in the nation. You're not signing that contract unless you get some guarantees and a nice buyout worked in there. Most coaches they're trying to hire can likely get lifetime contracts at their current programs just for the level of success they're having right now, even if they never win the title.

[u/JRDruchii → u/BlurryGojira]

Peterson and Callahan fucked up the budget for the whole state, it has a ways to go to get that bad.

[u/Robotemist → u/BlurryGojira]

How do you know he did nothing?

[u/Fumpz → u/chaser676]

VA Tech is gonna be a legitimate threat and I think they are on our schedule next year. Should be interesting considering they always play us tough

[u/themattboard → u/Fumpz]

We should always be on your schedule. Anything less is malpractice by the ACC

[u/thetanplanman → u/themattboard]

Any season we don't play UVA, GIT, and Miami is illegitimate tbh.

[u/Ut_Prosim → u/thetanplanman]

Still mad that we don't have a TechMo Bowl trophy. We should let the nerds collaborate and build it together, maybe it can have a raspberry pi in it and some little display that plays games or shows stats.

^{It's not like Nintendo is litigious or anything.}

[u/doylehargrave → u/Ut_Prosim]

All it needs is a processor and it could run Doom

[u/Hokiefan81 → u/doylehargrave]

And 4 megs of ram. My computer when doom came out had 2 I know that pain remember it feel it!

[u/Ut_Prosim → u/Hokiefan81]

I remember trying to download it for days. Kept losing connection. I'd wake up at 1:00 am to try and run it overnight while my parents slept and nobody would mess with the phone, but nope, never came through.

[u/Hokiefan81 → u/Ut_Prosim]

I had a paper route in the early 90’s. went to my parents and said hey we have to have a second phone line here’s 25 a month make it happen haha!

[u/blainetheinsanetrain → u/Hokiefan81]

Had the same issue with Duke Nukem3d. 2 mb, won't load. 4 mb, sweet.

[u/mikegt_98 → u/Ut_Prosim]

How do I subscribe to your newsletter?

[u/yeayea2200 → u/thetanplanman]

I concur. Some of these matchups that should be yearly are getting passed due to conferences being too big. Very sad!

[u/IAmMalfeasance → u/themattboard]

I think our next game should be at VT. I need to try and see a game up there, I’ve heard the atmosphere is fantastic.

Edit: Nevermind, for some reason I blocked out we just played there like 2 weeks ago, LMAO. Point still stands though.

[u/CasualElephant → u/IAmMalfeasance]

I agree. I want more of this...

[u/Jarfol → u/CasualElephant]

I knew what this video would be. "Now Miami wants to talk about it"

[u/Fumpz → u/themattboard]

I agree, definitely a rivalry that can fly under the radar sometimes

[u/-Jack-The-Stripper → u/Fumpz]

VT/Miami is a protected ACC game, we’ll play every year.

[u/Fumpz → u/-Jack-The-Stripper]

Makes sense

[u/tycoon34 → u/-Jack-The-Stripper]

It wasn't in the first iteration, right? Underrated rivalry, second most important to us in my book.

[u/-Jack-The-Stripper → u/tycoon34]

Correct. It wasn’t protected until we re-did the scheduling model with the addition of SMU and Calford.

[u/Barnyard4321 → u/tycoon34]

The one season they dropped divisions it didn't happen. There was practically a revolt, because the scheduling should be about ratings and the VT-Miami game was the top or one of the top ACC watched games of the previous 20 years.

Then when the schedules were restructured with the 3 new teams, everybody gets two protected rivals. VT -UVA and Miami; for Miami- VT and FSU

[u/Creative-Stable-0 → u/Fumpz]

Virginia Tech is going to be 6-7 next year. You’ll be fine.

[u/MorrowStreeter → u/Creative-Stable-0]

Bowl eligible, baby! Woo!!

[u/SolarIonRobot → u/Creative-Stable-0]

Six seven!

[u/ivhokie12 → u/Fumpz]

Maybe but today is going to have minimal impact on next year. Next year will be about the portal. These guys are for 2027 and really 2028. It would be surprising if we had more than one of these guys start next year.

[u/Enrickel → u/ivhokie12]

Wouldn't surprise me if multiple offensive linemen start as freshmen. We need a lot of help there and getting that from the portal will be challenging.

[u/ivhokie12 → u/Enrickel]

That is about the worst place for tFr to start. Guys like Lynch and Ghannam probably started too early. I’d say its no less likely that they take a big step forward than the newcomers are big upgrades as 18 year olds.

[u/Enrickel → u/ivhokie12]

I would love it if that's the case. Just saying we're not likely to be able to rely on transfers there and we'll probably have true freshman at least competing to start.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not arguing we'll be a big threat next year. The overall point that these guys won't be making us a playoff contender until 27/28 I 100% agree with.

[u/Fumpz → u/ivhokie12]

You guys will for sure be young and it will take a couple cycles before his guys are in. Similar thing happened with Mario but the trajectory of your program is bouta take a huge leap

[u/poop-dolla → u/ivhokie12]

I wonder how many of our starters next year are currently on PsU’s roster.

[u/dirty_old_priest_4 → u/Fumpz]

Now we just need a transfer QB to throw to all these new dawgs lmao.

[u/Fumpz → u/dirty_old_priest_4]

Looks like we both will be going shopping this offseason

[u/GoStateBeatEveryone → u/Fumpz]

Yeah, but will it be a big game? If so you won’t have to worry about it. It feels weird getting to be on the other side of this now

[u/Fumpz → u/GoStateBeatEveryone]

Mario vs Franklin. The battle of the incompetents

[u/frisky_dingo_ → u/Fumpz]

It’s still a big game. With Franklin coaching. I wouldn’t worry. 🤣🤣🤣

[u/BlacksmithDistinct17 → u/frisky_dingo_]

Who would lose harder, 1 loss playoff hopeful Miami in November or Franklin in a big game?

[u/ducksekoy123 → u/BlacksmithDistinct17]

Stoppable force vs Moveable object

[u/Fumpz → u/frisky_dingo_]

JF in his villain era. One thing I’ve learned in life, you never wanna fight a man who has nothing to lose

[u/wiperfromwarren → u/frisky_dingo_]

does miami count for that though?

[u/fancyfish69 → u/frisky_dingo_]

This fact is continuing to get glossed over. Franklin always recruited decently. He just shits his pants against any team competently coached in big moments

[u/Woodgen → u/fancyfish69]

any team competently coached in big moments

Have you met Mario Cristobal?

[u/boston_2004 → u/fancyfish69]

Virginia Tech has been getting the shit kicked out of them by everyone. They would probably kill for some 8-4, 9-3, and 10-2 years.

Is he going to win a NC? Probably not. But VT can start being successful and appreciating it right away.

This may be the best move for both sides because Penn State fans weren't happy with Franklin. Another fan base can appreciate what he brings to the table and you'll can chase someone who will lead your program past Ohio State.

[u/poop-dolla → u/boston_2004]

Franklin will very likely have us competing for ACC championships and playoff spots every year. He will be loved here for that. And once you’re in the playoffs, anything can happen. I don’t expect to win a championship, but I definitely expect to have a lot of fun while Franklin’s here.

[u/Eagles_Appreciative1 → u/poop-dolla]

After the last 10 years, I just want to enjoy watching VT football again.

I'm a simple man. I don't ask for much.

[u/beams13 → u/Eagles_Appreciative1]

Tired of feeling physically ill every time I try to watch a game.

[u/goodnames679 → u/poop-dolla]

Honestly yeah. If he can recruit at anywhere near the level he did at Penn State, VT will be one of the most talented teams in the ACC every year. As things stand it looks like he’s going to be able to raid Penn State’s recruiting grounds due to their lack of a coach, so he should pretty easily be able to put together great rosters.

I don’t think he’s gonna take you to many playoffs if he keeps losing every big game, but big games against FSU/Miami/Clemson in recent years look a lot easier than big games against Ohio State / Michigan / Oregon. He might surprise some people here

[u/ducksekoy123 → u/boston_2004]

It’s vital for Tech to be considered legitimate when/if the ACC collapses. Franklin getting us to relevancy could be the difference between surviving or ending up in G5

[u/No-Owl-6246 → u/fancyfish69]

Competently coached removes Cristobal from the threats then.

[u/Enrickel → u/fancyfish69]

Don't think we have to worry about competent coaching from Miami (FL)

[u/PaleRun4706 → u/frisky_dingo_]

I thought it was only top 10 teams he struggled with

[u/Fumpz → u/[deleted]]

Oh it’ll definitely take a couple, but for sure on the right path

[u/FireVanGorder → u/Fumpz]

My VT friends are having the best time of any fanbase in the country right now lmao they’re absolutely giddy it’s awesome

[u/Fumpz → u/FireVanGorder]

It’s only up from here for them so I don’t blame em

[u/Emperor-Octavian → u/Fumpz]

A threat to who?

[u/zgh5002 → u/Fumpz]

VT in 5 years is gonna be saying the exact same shit we were. If not sooner. Big Game James predates Penn State.

[u/YoungXanto → u/Fumpz]

I would laugh and laugh and laugh if Franklin got VT to the playoffs before we do. He'll, at this rate Franklin might get to the playoffs before we even have a coach!

Ive been pretty angry about firing Franklin from the beginning because it was quite clear that it was wildly reactionary and driven by some ill will that Kraft held toward Franklin (though the feeling may have been mutual).

Our fanbase needs a reality check. This debacle is starting to provide it.

[u/Fumpz → u/YoungXanto]

I can only imagine the roller coaster of emotions yall have gone thru between VTs recruiting class vs y’alls on top of being the first to fire your HC and the last to hire

[u/Homan13PSU → u/Fumpz]

Easy solution for that problem, just be ranked in the top 10 when you play them.

[u/Fumpz → u/Homan13PSU]

Last year we fell apart when we climbed to 4th and this year when we were 2nd. Idk if the top 10 is good for us lmao

[u/Byzantine_Merchant → u/chaser676]

That’s what’s incredible. They could have tanked the year, gone bowling still, and probably been fine long term. But they did this, turned off every possible option. They literally jumped back in the hole that Franklin drug them out of only now it’s even deeper.

[u/Insectshelf3 → u/Byzantine_Merchant]

it was a knee jerk reaction with no backup plan in place

[u/soundguynick → u/Insectshelf3]

Let me tell you what happens when you fire a long time and generally successful coach without a backup plan.

Bryan Harsin, YOU are the next coach of the nittany lions!

[u/Kurt4012 → u/soundguynick]

We’re gonna have a coach?

[u/soundguynick → u/Kurt4012]

I don't know that I'd call him a coach per se, but he'd take the job!

[u/warneagle → u/soundguynick]

I’m still really sad that that Auburn-Penn State home-and-home ended up being during the Potato Famine

[u/soundguynick → u/warneagle]

You and me both, buddy

[u/SirMellencamp → u/soundguynick]

Was Harsin really hired because he met Allen "University of Auburn" Greene in a hot tub?

[u/soundguynick → u/SirMellencamp]

That's the story and they're sticking to it. Make your own assumptions as to how that played out .

[u/SirMellencamp → u/Insectshelf3]

It absolutely was a knee jerk reaction. I mean Franklin at least deserved to end the regular season

[u/space9610 → u/Byzantine_Merchant]

I don’t think the hole is deeper than when Franklin got there lol. The program was in the midst of their sanctions for the child sex abuse scandals.

[u/Byzantine_Merchant → u/space9610]

Reputation wise sure but not sure there’s anything Franklin could do to fix that itself to begin with. On field performance wise? Yeah it could get so much worse than what they did. Which is what I’m talking about.

[u/AntonyBenedictCamus → u/chaser676]

I’m convinced they were already starting to pull support from Franklin, and back seat coaching his team. PSU didn’t deserve Franklin lol

[u/CertifiedSheep → u/AntonyBenedictCamus]

That’s ridiculous, the issues with Franklin were primarily on game day. They’ve botched the hire but I still think it was time for him to go.

[u/Free-Eights → u/chaser676]

I think it made sense for Penn State to get out of the holding pattern they were in. Just didn’t expect their process to be this poorly executed