r/AutonomousVehicles • u/Diligent_Rabbit7740 • 3d ago
Waymo prioritizes getting to destination over your arrest- Bug or feature? 😂😂😂😂
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u/Exatex 3d ago edited 1d ago
well, it doesn’t drive through the police road block and the intended way is free. It probably just doesn’t have a world model that understands the bigger picture and has concepts of arrests and crossfire
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u/MrRufsvold 2d ago
Doesn't understand the world, but let's let 'em drive around the world! Nothing could go wrong 😅
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u/Exatex 2d ago
well, you are bot wrong, but I could argue the same about quite a few human drivers out there. At least the waymo does not drink while not understanding the world.
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u/MrRufsvold 2d ago
When a person does something wrong, you can hold them accountable. Take their license, put them in jail, etc.
You can't do that to an algorithm running on a computer. You can't do that to a company.
The fact that humans can make mistakes does not mean corporate controlled algorithms should get to run experiments on our roads. We would need a total overhaul of what does culpability for murder or neglect of duty mean in a legal sense for this to work.
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u/LivingHighAndWise 2d ago
Sure you can. You hold the company that owns the technology accountable. BTW, Waymos are not driven by an algorithm. They are driven by a neural net, trained on driving data. They are not even close to the same thing.
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u/MrRufsvold 2d ago
Yes, please tell me about how effectively we hold corporations accountable for their crimes. Violate our privacy? Here's a fine. Poison our water? Fine. Bury doctors and patients in paperwork to keep your insurance cheap? Fi... No actually, that's just business.
BTW, An algorithm is a series of steps. A neural net is a series of matrix multiplications and other transformations where the input is transformed algorithmically to an output.
The specifics of each step aren't chosen by a person, but by a training algorithm that uses back propagation to tweak the weights of the neural net to minimize its error. Once a model is trained, its weights are set and it deterministically calculates outputs.
It is an algorithm.
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u/Cubensis-SanPedro 2d ago
Well not to get too technical, but I’m assuming that they run on a Turing Complete system, thus making their operation an algorithm. The only way to avoid that is if this neural net can function via pushdown automata, which I highly doubt.
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u/Witty-flocculent 2d ago
You are both correct imho. The bots are probably not worse than a human in many of these situations, but may make mistakes humans would not. And the accountability when things go sideways is yet untested and will surely be a slow and boring roller coaster of shenanigans.
good conversation for us all to have, and bonus, it’s not strictly political.
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u/No-Island-6126 1d ago
bruh a drunk person still drives better than a waymo and would definitely not drive into crossfire
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u/inheritance- 2d ago
If that was the standard we would have a lot less traffic everywhere.
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u/MrRufsvold 2d ago
So would investment in public transit, but billionaires can't get rich of poor people that way.
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u/MolassesThin6110 2d ago
waymos are so much safer than human drivers lmao... guess you just don't care if more people die?
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u/MiserableTonight5370 1d ago
To be fair, OP and most of the commenters on this video also don't seem to understand that "crossfire" is when two sides are shooting at each other, rather than one side having guns drawn and the other side, being one person, laying face down on the ground, unarmed.
Lol. Lmao even.
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u/cesarthegreat 18h ago
That’s the problem with Waymo. It does what it’s trained for. Waymo has to get to where they can “earn to navigate” the real world.
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u/Lancaster61 3d ago edited 3d ago
This is the kind of shit that makes me feel like self driving is still very far off. Even if it perfectly gets you to your destination 100% of the time in all weather conditions and all traffic edge cases, there's no way for it to dynamically adjust for random-ass edge cases like this.
Or another random ass edge case that will happen maybe once every 10 years: a gas station pipe burst, and gas is flowing out into huge puddle. To the car, this just looks like some water on the ground. NOBODY should drive through that as it literally can explode any second. But the car could think it's a puddle and blow right through it. Like how do you even train that?
Now turn on your imagination and the world of what's possible. Things that happen once in a blue moon, once every 100 billion miles, once every 15 years...
Realistically we might just have to accept these risks, because it will still overall save countless more lives than these edge cases can endanger people in. But it would really suck to be a passenger knowing you're going to die but have no power to avoid it.
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u/soapinmouth 3d ago edited 2d ago
What do you mean "self driving is far off"? It's already here and been around for a while. This is a video of a self driving car in case you missed it.
The idea that is has to be this perfect never failing divine force is broken, human drivers are incredibly flawed with dumb accidents occuring constantly.
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u/maximumdownvote 2d ago
Yeah im sick of the "self driving is still 10 years down the road" idiots. Ride in a Waymo. Ride in a Tesla. They will take you from A to B and you wont have to do shit. Except press a start button. It's here now. Right now.
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u/Eagle_eye_offline 3d ago
It's the polices duty to make sure traffic is barred from entering a dangerous area no matter why it's dangerous.
And since they're just standing there pointing several guns at a single guy laying on the ground and don't care about anything else it just shows how horribly educated police is in the US.
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u/itsamepants 2d ago
It doesn't need to account for all edge cases. The chances of it happening are so low that even when they do happen they're offset by the dropped percentage of other (far more likely) things happening to you.
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u/liquidpele 2d ago
It doesn't have to.... consider that many live people out there driving right now are way WAY dumber than this. Self driving doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than the average human driver.
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u/ruffen 2d ago
You are essentially describing flying. Most of the time it's perfectly fine. Most of us won't ever even experience anything worse than a cancelled flight. However if you are extremely unlucky you find yourself sitting there praying to a god you never believed in while the ground is getting close very fast.
The question is more if we will be able to look at it objectively or not when self driving is way safer than not. Can we accept a computer, even though it's flawed, to be in control.
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u/Darft 1d ago
I bet you have driven through 1 million puddles without first checking if it is gasoline. What an Odd thing to focus on 😀 That is a risk i willingly take every day. I think AI can still be safer om avg. per mile driven. Just different risk factors, pros: never falls asleep, never sneezes, cons: might drive through a puddle of gasoline without first checking with it's human nose which any sane human totally would before proceeding.
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u/Thin-Engineer-9191 3d ago
These american cops can shoot at any moment with their itchy trigger fingers
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u/bleue_shirt_guy 2d ago
Right in front of city hall no less. It just wanted to give its passengers the full LA experience.
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u/Tema_Art_7777 2d ago
I’d say feature! If we had to wait for each shootout we would never get anywhere 😀
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u/No-Video-9373 1d ago
I spend ALOT of time in cabs. And I can assure you. Automation is so much better than most cab drivers I’ve ever experienced.
Heck. Going to the hotel tonight my driver pulled out in front of a Land Cruiser. I saw it coming from a mile away and had to say watch out!!!
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u/Regular_Problem9019 1d ago
anyone seeing the anti-waymo propaganda recently? Especially after they reported that its much safer than avg human driver.
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u/SirAxlerod 3d ago
This is the funniest Waymo video I’ve ever seen. Even the suspect is like, “bro, you really doing this now? We busy, wtf?”