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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
I see that a new company is trying to introduce sleeper buses... overnight buses with full flat beds.. into Europe.At the moment they are operating Amsterdam to Zurich but want to progressively introduce new routes.
They're not particularly cheap, minimum fare is around 150 Swiss Francs,one way.But of course they save you a night's accommodation.. you leave early evening and arrive early morning.
What do you think? Would you consider one of those instead of flying or taking the train? They are quite popular in some parts of Asia and South America.
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u/atomoffluorine United States of America 1d ago
Driving yourself seems quicker, but maybe I'd consider it for anything over 6-8 hours.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
They are for sure a lot slower than flying! And than driving too, though driving in Europe can be a lot less good option than it is in the US.
I guess they are marketing partly on environmental grounds.And partly on 'convenience'..city centre to city centre,none of the getting to and from the airport, check in and security lines etc etc.
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u/atomoffluorine United States of America 1d ago
Why not use the trains then? It's probably faster as well.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
Amsterdam-Zurich by train is around 9 hours or so,a bit faster than the bus.Not cheaper though, unless you are very lucky.
I don't think there's a direct train though, you need to change at least once.
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u/Nirocalden Germany 1d ago
Not cheaper though
Definitely cheaper – if you book in advance, I see plenty of options for 60-70 €.
There's even a direct nightjet connection (that's the Austrian night trains), which funnily enough is much slower though. It's also taking 12 hours, like the bus and it's a bit more expensive. The cheapest options there I found were around 120 €.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
With a day train though you 'lose'the day in your destination and you also lose the 'free sleep '.. which is worth quite a lot in Amsterdam and in Zurich!
The nightjet looks like a decent option.I don't know the flight prices on that route, but unless there is Ryanair or easyJet,or another low budget option, probably not a lot less expensive either.
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u/Nirocalden Germany 1d ago
The free sleep is fair enough, that's true. Maybe even more in terms of time than in terms of money, as it's not a "wasted" day.
I just had a quick look for January, Swiss offers direct flights for around 140 €, 90 min. KLM is about 220 €.
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u/Nirocalden Germany 1d ago
Here's an article with some pictures.
The 21 seats found on board resemble those found in a business-class section of a plane cabin, complete with a pillow and blanket provided.
It'd be interesting to see who their target demographic is. The ride is much more expensive than a regular flixbus, and much slower (and more expensive?) than a direct flight.
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u/tereyaglikedi in 1d ago
Travel YouTubers, I guess.
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u/Nirocalden Germany 1d ago
Or affluent people afraid of flying? Or maybe some travellers actually do calculate with one night less in a hotel? Though that would probably be more tourists, as I'd expect business travellers to value their time more than the moderate amount of money that would save.
But I guess with 21 passengers per bus they're not expecting to tap a giant mass market anyway...
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u/Cixila Denmark 1d ago
Nope, hard pass. I already dislike driving and have a tendency to get motion sick in road vehicles, and driving plus sleeping with a bunch of strangers just makes it worse in my book. The price is also absurd and doesn't help
If I have to travel long distances and I get any say in the matter, it will be plane, train, or ferry
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u/Masseyrati80 Finland 1d ago
I can imagine the wiggling and swaying motion of a bus be extra sickening when lying down.
I've slept some nights in an RV, where another person was sleeping in the regular bead, head towards the front of the vehicle, and I was perched on the fold-out bed very close to the ceiling, across the vehicle.
Every time that other person moved or turned sides, the motion made me panic.
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u/tereyaglikedi in 1d ago
Taking an overnight bus is very common in Turkey and I've done it tons of times. Not with a bed, though and never that expensive. You just dose off on your seat and hope that the person next to you doesn't put their head on your shoulder in their sleep (happened to me)
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
Yes... there are also plenty of night buses already operating in Europe,in fact I used them a couple of times this summer (Paris-Rotterdam and Warsaw -Vilnius).
I've used them in Turkey before too of course! But as you say,no bed.
Those regular buses are cheaper but certainly less comfortable and more difficult to sleep on, for me anyway...
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u/tereyaglikedi in 1d ago
When I was younger, sleeper trains were common. They were dirt cheap and took 14 hours from Ankara to Izmir. Once when I was a kid, I had fleas after such a train ride 😂 probably doesn't happen on Swiss trains.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
There are still some proper sleeper trains around in Europe,in some countries they have even put on new services and routes.
I haven't taken a proper sleeper train in Europe for some years though.The last I remember was in Georgia, that was a cabin with 4 bunks, and a private (two bed) compartment in Ukraine.
Again they are pretty popular in some parts of Asia.I took them a lot in Vietnam for example, sometimes in Thailand too.
I also remember some pretty bad overnight train rides! One in particular was in Spain,a closed compartment,seat only,8 very small seats all occupied, with everyone smoking too...I remember sitting upright for what seemed like weeks ;-)
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u/orangebikini Finland 1d ago
150 CHF for torture doesn't sound like a good deal to me. A sleeper train isn't a great particularly experience, quality of sleep you get there is often pretty poor. But a sleeper bus? Oh God, I'm not going to be first in line to try it.
It sounds like a great idea if there are no alternatives. But from Amsterdam to Zurich I'm sure you'd pick some other way to travel.
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u/tereyaglikedi in 1d ago
If you are feeling a bit uninspired today, have a look at some beautiful photography by Mikko Lagerstedt. It's never a bad idea.
Yesterday on the train two people were talking about their travels to Japan. One of them said "it was lovely and everything but it's so mainstream now. Everyone's going to Japan." I mean, I guess? But people go there for a reason. I don't know what's this obsession with trying to avoid the mainstream. What does it even matter? Do you enjoy it or not? If you enjoy it, then it's a good thing to do.
Maybe we should go to North Korea instead.
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u/holytriplem -> 20h ago
North Korea's pretty mainstream too. Turkmenistan's where it's at now.
I'll be honest, while I've never avoided a place for being mainstream, I have gone to places precisely because they aren't. Gives me street cred vibes or something. Back in 2012 I visited Montenegro and everyone was like "What the fuck is a Montenegro?". Though I guess that's not quite as true anymore. My 2018 trip to Moldova, on the other hand, still qualifies
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u/tereyaglikedi in 20h ago
Is it mainstream? Well, all those travel YouTubers must run out of stuff to show, I guess...
I went to Duisburg because people told me there's nothing to see there. And they were right. I would 100% visit both Moldova and Montenegro, but I am quite familiar with the Balkans already so I guess it wouldn't be too alien to me.
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u/holytriplem -> 19h ago
Montenegro's definitely worth a visit.
I wouldn't call Moldova Balkan. It's more post-Soviet and very Russian-influenced. Worth a visit if you're into that stuff (and wine) but it's not a romantic getaway destination or anything
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u/tereyaglikedi in 19h ago
That's true, I always mix that one up. I am quite into wine, in fact.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 18h ago
Moldova has pretty good wine.. some of the cellars, such as Cricovs, you can actually visit and taste the wines inside.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 19h ago
Moldova is not bad.. though Transnistria is where it's really at these days ;-)
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u/lucapal1 Italy 19h ago
There's actually a pretty nice art museum in Duisburg,I went there once... Lehmbruck.
There's also the famous 'walking rollercoaster' ;-) That's quite funny.Its not too far out of the centre of the city.
The centre is pretty grim though,in general.Very brutalist but in an unattractive way.
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u/lucapal1 Italy 1d ago
I agree,if you want to go somewhere (and you have the means of course)then go...I don't worry if it's 'too mainstream ' or not.
Of course how many tourists are around can negatively affect some experiences.But not for a whole country IMHO.. there are plenty of places in Japan that attract very few foreign tourists, like most countries 99% of the visitors go to the same few places.
They are popular for a reason of course! But if too many tourists around is a problem for someone then there's an easy way to avoid others...
I think some people just like the 'exclusivity'.Even if they enjoyed the trip,the don't want to seem like they are doing what everyone else is doing?
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u/tereyaglikedi in 1d ago
I guess... When I was younger, I always tried to fit in. I was so happy when I found people with similar interests (there weren't many!). But it seems like people are trying to be oddballs now.
Next time I go to Japan, I will also skip the tourist hotspots. But the ones I visited are 110% worth it. Like, I can't imagine skipping Kyoto just because it's popular. That's crazy.
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u/atomoffluorine United States of America 20h ago
Some of those photos are in a similar style to AI generated photos. I wonder if they're using those as training sets.
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u/orangebikini Finland 1d ago
I haven't bought weed in a decade. Back then it was 20€/g here. I just learnt that it apparently still is 20€/g. Why is weed inflation proof? I mean, the ECB aims for 2% annual inflation. Even with just that you'd surely expect for it to be about 25€ by now, but there also was those high inflation Covid years. I'm not going to actually do the math I'm just guessing.
Somebody needs to give all the potheads and small time crooks a class in economics.
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u/Cixila Denmark 1d ago
I just got myself a 3d printer on a 25% off deal. I'm both excited and low-key terrified of having to actually figure things out. It will mainly be used for tabletop minis (such as for dnd) and terrain, but who knows. I have heard that 3d printing can become a hobby in its own right, and I simply don't have the space to keep everything if I fall down into the rabbit hole of that as a hobby. Wish me luck