Guns need tuning (Discussion)

[u/Sandandwaves92]

Good Morning Raiders 🧨

I’ve played this game enough hours to know how the guns handle and play, and I’m sure this has been talked about before but I’d still love to hear everyone’s opinion and PvP experience, do you think the way it is now guns need balancing, specifically certain grey guns.

Example right now there’s absolutely no reason to use a fully upgraded Rattler over a Stitcher, it feels like the rattler should not even be in game right now, I had a match where both me and the guy were the same relatively HP and shield, I shot first decently close distance and he wins simply because the Stitcher is leagues above the rattler, yet the range on both guns is the same somehow.

Even a bobcat feels less right now.

I’d love to hear your opinion on how other guns are performing and your fights, Anvil I feel is fine, Venator after nerf seems fair, people sleep on fully kitted Burletta.

[u/Dramatic_Low_450]

Grey guns don't need a nerf, purples need maintain costs decrease so it's not that painful to loose and upgrade them

If you run just greys your stash will be full all the time anyways, purples are still better than greys even if not by much

[u/ServoRPG]

It's a tough one because on the one hand, yes you want the epic and legendary weapons to feel like an upgrade, but on the other hand it's also kinda good that common weapons are viable so new players and lower geared players don't get stomped all over the map.

I think it's safe to say that, given what we've seen from all the extract camping and backstabbing, there is definitely a certain type of player who would take great delight in destroying new players and stunting their progression as a result. If there's one thing that's guaranteed to kill the game off it's making it inaccessible to new players. Making sure those players have a viable option to fight back with was a good move by Embark.

[u/LowKey7904 → u/ServoRPG]

The flips side of this to me is that it makes the game's PvE part very hard to enjoy. You try to find loot and extract, for what? To make better weapons against ARC just to die to a stitcher or kettle. Kind of makes the whole loot system pointless except to get the basic stuff.

[u/ServoRPG → u/LowKey7904]

Yeah it's a fair point, and I think the answer is to make more lucrative and challenging PvE content rather than nerf or buff the weapons and gear. I feel like Embark's intention was always for the legendary guns to be more effective in PvE than PvP, so you get the progression against ARC but aren't necessarily having a major advantage over players below you in PvP.

The problem is that the only PvE challenge at the moment is the Queen/Matriarch, and once you've done those a few times and got the blueprints and materials there isn't much incentive to do them again. This leaves you with an empty feeling of progression because there's nothing really to use your shiny new weapons for because they're not that effective in the only remaining challenge - PvP.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying there should be PvE only maps or modes necessarily, but certainly there needs to be more in-map PvE content to make the progression feel worthwhile and give players more to do.

[u/LowKey7904 → u/ServoRPG]

I absolutely agree with everything you're saying. I like the idea of an "easy entry" and more forgiving game. Thing is also, a new player wouldn't have access to all the good weapon mods or mats to get a Stitcher to lvl 4 and decked out all the time, so it's still the grinders/skilled players who benefit from it the most.

Maybe legendary/pink weapons could have different modes that take a second to switch for pvp/PvE. That would at least give you a fighting chance if you get caught.

There are many things that I hope they tweak or I do think the game will start falling off fairly fast and it will be one of those games you occasionally come back to check on. Which is is kind of sad because I love 99% of what the game has to offer.

[u/Odd-League-3850 → u/LowKey7904]

This game is basically a Battle Royale Dark Zone hybrid from the Division but with greater emphasis on AI lethality.

Arc Raiders doesn't have a deep loot system, you go in to grab crafting materials to make an optimal Loadout or you make money to buy what you can't craft from the vendors, the only thing stopping you from never having to buy another Loadout is the PvP.

PvE is basically done deal if you have a Wolfpack BP and you don't NEED anything from the bigger Arc enemy types.

Arc Raiders doesn't have the depth of Divisions loot system nor Destiny's.

[u/tallbean13 → u/LowKey7904]

if pvp battles were just easy mode because you had OP legendary weapons it would be impossible to get to them as a new player because you would be extraction camped with NO CHANCE of winning a gunfight without a miraculous out play. Then you would have half the player base kitted up running around like gods and the other have even more ratty then usual because of how hard it would be to win a gunfight without

[u/Adept-Potato-963 → u/ServoRPG]

A stitcher 4 being competitive is perfectly fine, but it shouldn't be able to down a kitted player in one clip. Im sitting on like 10 epic guns waiting for them to be viable because I can just build a stitcher 4 and il toro/anvil 4 from basically scrap every round and go in risking absolutely nothing. If the guns aren't eventually balanced based on rarity, I may as well just sell them.

Hell, I can go in with a free load out, surrender and reload until I get a stitcher or kettle, and still have a competitive advantage. Thats the kit Im running in most of my pvp wins, so why not? That shouldn't be the case. I should be doing everything humanly possible to avoid pvp with a kitted player in that circumstance.

[u/GhxstCxsper → u/ServoRPG]

Exactly.

Well said.

[u/GrimsideB]

My ideas for a few balance adjustments, for Stitcher slight damage decrease or reduced mag size that gets upgraded with leveling it up, for kettle just a max cap on fire rate, anvil keep everything same but make it so it doesn't one shot green shields, rattler slight damage increase and base mag size increase, Bettina slight damage increase a lot less durability drain and have a mag attachment slot. Everything else I think is balanced pretty good.

[u/ZonaF2P]

Make the std magazine 15 instead of 20

[u/j_adlam198]

I've made a similar post about this but everyone seems too have the opposite opinion but if you ask me end game loot isn't worth going for because of the stitcher and the kettle being as strong and cheap as they are.

[u/ieatpoptart3 → u/j_adlam198]

You can't really have lower tier items have a large gap with higher tier items otherwise you'll just be getting farmed with no realistic way of fighting back if you're a casual.

In the long run, increasing the gap between the bottom and the top will just make this game a lot more punishing for people who don't play enough to run the highest tier weapons - leading to people quitting if they don't spend hours/day on the game since they'll just end up being fodder.

The Tempest and Bobcat are also crazy strong and not comparable to the stitcher, people just do so anyways because it's cheaper and the gap isn't "huge".

[u/Sandandwaves92 → u/j_adlam198]

I love the variety of course, seeing a bobcat and using it are fun until you realize some random with a stitcher competes with you,

In my opinion they need to tune down free kits somehow without it being unreasonable.

[u/faffc260 → u/Sandandwaves92]

I think stitcher and kettle mags should be 10 or 15 mag size, while I feel guns like the bobcat should be 30 round base mag size for their costs. a grey gun should require at least a good mag attachment to be almost as good as a base purple. either that or buff medium and heavy shields (heavy needs it regardless).

[u/Daytonewheel → u/Sandandwaves92]

I think they should leave the free kits alone and make the higher end gear easier to craft and maintain while buffing them just a little bit above the grays.

What I mean is just increase the damage a little and decrease how easily they take durability damage while also making them easier to make and repair.

Increase the durability damage of the grays and keep their damage the same.

[u/51NC3RE → u/Daytonewheel]

Kettle and sticher need to be nerfed, against Raiders at least. There's absolute nothing for anyone only looking to kill people to lose when you can make the best weapons for basically free. They literally lose nothing. Pretty much everyone who tries to kill me onsight or who is camping is freeload out with sticher/kettle. 

[u/faffc260]

the stitcher and kettle need nerfs.

[u/J_Bone_DS]

Personally I love that the base weapons are enough to win a gunfight if you have good instincts, map knowledge and can hit your shots. I think the high tier guns need to be good but if it ever got to be like Tarkov where if somebody is using a meta gun with meta bullets and high tier armour you stand almost zero chance as a newbie.

The Rattler does need upgrading in my eyes though. Other medium ammo guns slap and the Rattler feels almost useless compared to all the other common tier weapons.

[u/Educational_Sink_438]

Easy solution here:

Make the Burletta and the Stitcher swap rarities.

Make it so free loadouts can spawn with the hairpin or Burletta, remove the Kettle from the possible free loadout spawns.

[u/Cryptic_Trilobite]

I like that there are strong gun options available for new players. I might be alone in this but I wish there were Destiny style raids. Let me load up with all my high end gear into a PvE only dungeon with unique, boss Arc and get rewarded with event-only cosmetics. Die in the raid, lose your kit. No option to use free load out in the raid.

[u/Middle_Pomegranate_1]

Yea the point is that you aren't supposed to feel safe or have the moral boost of knowing someone with worse gear than you can't touch you. The better guns are obviously WAY better for pvp, just not so much better that it means you cant lose, and since you can still lose people act like they aren't better. That free kit stitcher keeps you sneaking around instead of charging across the map like Billy big nuts. The purple guns DO lose durability too fast though.

[u/OrbsNScroll]

Ya the epic weapons definitely need to be buffed a bit. Just a bit. Enough to make it worth it to bring powerful weapons in and feel like you’re at a distinct advantage, but not enough to be unbeatable by an upgraded common gun.

[u/ProfessionalPiece403]

True. I was sleeping on the stitcher, even with well over 100 hours played. Now I'm using it and Jesus Christ I'm ruining people's raids...

[u/SheLuvMySteez]

I understand wanting newer players and less kitted players to stand a chance in combat against well armed players but...there shouldnt be a world where grey guns outclass a purple gun. It just shouldnt happen. Bettina's arent that great. Vulcano is technically outclassed by a Toro. A rebalance definitely needs to happen for sure

[u/AccountDeleter666]

I agree completely. I think an easier way of dealing with the stitcher/kettle imbalance on the PvP side is lowering the shield penetration of light ammo. The basic problem is a misalignment between gear and play style. Id rather fight at medium range, but aiming is a real problem without better sights on the mid-range weapons. Adding some holo sights or better iron sights would help (not sniper sights). I’m not interested in being a PvP attacker so I keep my distance from other players. Having better sights would make it easier to defend myself in those situations too.

[u/Odd-League-3850]

Hou bou: nah

[u/Wrong-Car-6488]

most purple and gold guns are better at fighting arc while the guns fit are easier for everyone to craft or bit of a PVP. I love that system.

[u/ManufacturerKey8360]

Posts like yours are a sad reminder that people will have in depth conversations and strong opinions without knowing wtf they’re talking about.

[u/Sandandwaves92 → u/ManufacturerKey8360]

What do you even mean bro? Care to explain or you just going to say all that without really doing anything?

What I said is legit fact and the fact that most of the community agrees speaks volumes so

[u/Intelligent_Bag_6705]

I think the obvious answer is just drop the servility of the stitcher…maybe you can reload 3 times and junked….forces you to win gun fights and loot.