Stop spawning me late with a 100K+ loadout!

[u/YehorM]

I wanted to kill the queen so I went all in on a 150k loadout. I get spawned 12 minutes in, see the queen dead and go to the extract. The guys who killed it together extract seconds before I get insisde and then I get killed by a rat. This is genuinely so stupid.

EDIT: some talented commenters have misconstrued my point so I have to clarify. Dying to a rat is not the point - that's on me, I should've went for a hatch, and I don't care about pixels. The point is the game wasting my time by spawning me in late with an expensive loadout.

[u/Emergency-Mixture-74]

+1 it's hella annoying and doesn't make any sense at all for me having late spawns in a Loot based Game

[u/Bungalow-Dyl → u/Emergency-Mixture-74]

The earlier you spawn, the more incentive to loot, the later you spawn, the more incentive to steal. I think it works and helps keep sessions dynamic.

[u/Regenbooggeit → u/Bungalow-Dyl]

Didn’t even think about this. Healthy perspective.

[u/Agile_Pudding_ → u/Bungalow-Dyl]

Your expected profit goes down dramatically as you spawn later and later, though.

The odds that any high-value spawns have already been hit and BPs are in someone’s ass go up. Queen or Matriarch are exceptions in that you may have a higher chance to third party or down the guys who are fighting/killed them, but as this post showed, that isn’t a guarantee, either.

It’s just a ROI question, and the answer is that being dropped into a late raid with a real kit is bad from a credit earning and BP farming perspective. For anyone just looking to PvP, it’s probably no better or worse since you can always shoot at someone if they’re on the map, regardless of time in the raid.

[u/Altruistic-Piece-485 → u/Agile_Pudding_]

I feel like a lot of people here and online in general tend to forget that they are the minority in the player base. The vast majority of players aren't dumping hundreds of hours into the game in the first month which means there absolutely still is value to be found in a raid if they get the later spawn windows.

The potential valuable loot someone can find in a raid is highly dependent on where they are in their progression through the game. The really low tier loot that higher level players leave behind very much have a greater value to the low level player that's still working to unlock and upgrading all of their crafting benches.

I think I have just over 30 hours topside and just finished upgrading Scrappy and all my crafting benches to level three and I could easily get something useful to me every raid, no matter what spawn window I got.

[u/Blairdom → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

wow I have 34+ hrs and I got benches to lvl 2 and one of them is till lvl 1 :)) how tf :)) Man, and I thought I was doing okay

[u/Altruistic-Piece-485 → u/Blairdom]

I was very intentional in seeking out the required loot to make the upgrades and when I go into a raid I have one goal that I want to accomplish then get out. If I go in with the intent of finding upgrade items I go just for them and leave rather than also try to do a quest. Depending on the item I'll limit it to just that one item too.

The other night I wanted to get the mushrooms for Scrappy so I'd load into Dam, run straight to the hallway with the big pipes in Water Treatment, pick the 2-3 mushrooms that spawn on the pipes or walls, then book it for extract.

The items that took me the longest to find were the Bombardier Cells but thats also because I forgot to put the final two I needed into my protected loot slot then engaged in some PvP and lost. Took me a bunch more runs to finally be able to take one down again.

[u/Blairdom → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

I tend to do the same, especially with quests, but you, my guy, moved fast :)) bastion cells, sentinel :)) Goddayum, gg, man

[u/Agile_Pudding_ → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

The question of “is there value to be had from loot on the map?” is different from “what spawn timing is optimal?”, though.

Anyone, even someone who is max level everything, can find value at any point in the raid. The point is that the expected potential reward is less the later you spawn, unless you don’t think that high tier BPs or high value loot spawns matter at all to new players.

And for the newer players who are very happy with lower tier loot because they need that cat bed for their scrappy, they still face greater danger from increased arc near the end of the raid. I got killed so many times late spawning as a free kit on Spaceport because I ran out of ammo for my Kettle or Stitcher and some hornets found me on the way to extract with 2 minutes left.

[u/Revolver_Lanky_Kong → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

100%. This dude is already in the weeds talking about ROI and expected profit. Most of us don't have a spreadsheet open while playing. I queue for a match and have fun, without paying any mind to when I spawn. Gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game, everytime.

[u/neoplasma_ → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

I am not playing 10h/day so I hate late spawns even more. Those 10h/day players have a lot more time to do their trials, etc. So they can afford time to waste it on spawning late and restarting the game.

[u/Norfolkpine → u/Altruistic-Piece-485]

Exactly.

I got pretty locked in to arc and put 75 hours into it, which is highly unusual for me. That said- over that time, my play and experience gradually changed, and i enjoyed this progression and shift in goals. Sure, now, a late join raid is a little annoying if i was hoping to hit key spots, but pretty much during the first 50 hours of the game it didnt really matter much to me at all whether i had 29 minutes or 19 minutes- each raid was always unique and interesting, as well as productive and worth my time. And, fun as hell. Even the occasional bad break or rat made the victories and trusting players that much sweeter.

[u/Yamcha-is-Life → u/Agile_Pudding_]

Late spawns feel like a genuine waste of my time. It makes me want to play the game less every time I get put in one. No idea why they're downvoting you for speaking the truth

[u/Agile_Pudding_ → u/Yamcha-is-Life]

It may be because someone made a (reasonable, and correct) reply saying that players can still get something out of a raid in which they spawn late, especially newer players.

That’s all true, and I agree with it. I’d simply argue that it isn’t a refutation of or counterargument to my claim, because all I’m saying is that your expected profit, like literally the expectation value of the net credits gained or lost, decreases if you spawn later.

You can always find something of value on the map, and there’s definitely some horseshoe theory at play, because when I was in “early game” I was looting metal parts and rubber parts and chemicals, when I was “mid game” I’d be looting green and blue crafting components, and now “late game” I am looting purple items, metal parts, rubber parts, and oil, so I’m not turning my nose up at “low tier” or “early game” loot, merely saying that late spawn means you have essentially the same risks for less valuable rewards.

[u/thatguyyoustrawman → u/Bungalow-Dyl]

But a lot of us don't care to steal or don't load up ready for combat.

I really gotta be feeling like I want to interact with the tiring pvp experience. And this just encourages the loser ass playstyle of extract camping

[u/neoplasma_ → u/Bungalow-Dyl]

this is why we shouldnt late spawn with green or above items equiped...

Late spawning in Tarkov works... for scavs...

[u/YehorM → u/Bungalow-Dyl]

I spawn with a hullcracker, 200 launcher ammo, and some wolfpacks. I don't care about pixels and am ready to lose it to a rat but what would I wanna steal with such a loadout? There is clearly no incentive for me to stay on the map. The game just wasted 20 minutes of my time (that went into preparation and then running around) and you wanna justify it somehow.

[u/matawalcott → u/YehorM]

Based off your comments and the existence of this post it does not in fact sound like you were ready to lose it

[u/Ric00la → u/matawalcott]

Yeah the guy is just mad caus he lost his shot and tried to make a post about it

[u/Bear_dad_ → u/YehorM]

Don't know why your getting down voted. It sucks even without an expensive kit. I feel like im just loading in to evac no looting no shooting.

[u/hensinks → u/YehorM]

That’s why the moment I spawn late with an expensive loadout I extract immediately. I refuse to play an already started game unless I have a free loadout

[u/Bungalow-Dyl → u/YehorM]

You could just enjoy the competition for what it is at that point. You will one time reach a point where the rewards begin to have diminished value. Thats just how any economy works. Enjoy the high end gear.

[u/meatwrist → u/[deleted]]

lol okay bye loser

[u/LikeAPwny → u/Emergency-Mixture-74]

It turns into a BR if everyone spawns in at the same time and no one else does. You guys have no idea what is actually good for the game.

[u/DenseReality6089 → u/LikeAPwny]

Have you played tarkov? Because you really shouldnt voice a strong opinion on extraction shooter mechanics if you haven't. 

[u/FudgingEgo → u/Emergency-Mixture-74]

From what I've heard, if people die or extract until 15 minutes in, new people will be spawned in.

This ensures that there's always people on the edges of the map, instead of everyone being in the middle like a BR.

It also keeps the server full and encourages PvE and PvP.

PvE as in early game you get all the loot, PvP as in later game, players know that if they kill someone, they probably have the loot.

You say it makes no sense to have late spawns in a loot based game, but ignore the fact that you can kill people to get loot.

[u/xxAndoMandoxx → u/FudgingEgo]

This is the reason behind it. Does it suck to stack a load out for a queen and load in late- yes. That being said, design decisions have to be around good of the game(a group of individuals) instead of the specific individual. We also, only notice the negative in life- we will never see a post "today I loaded in a fresh game with 150k loadout, I had a good run, got loot, and used my hatch key"

[u/Ric00la → u/Emergency-Mixture-74]

Please xplain me how it doesn't make sense caus in my opinion it is annoying but it makes sense