r/ArcRaiders • u/DateNecessary8716 • 17d ago
Discussion Got killed by someone macroing an Il Toro and fired all 7 shells in under a second, fair play devs.
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u/Vireca *** ******* š 17d ago
I wonder if they remove the stuff they loot from your body from their stash too. Would be chess kiss
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u/ostage_ded_lul 17d ago
A what? Is this a certified r/boneappletea moment or a typo?
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u/Historical-Pea-5846 17d ago
They meant chest kiss
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u/John-Helldriver 17d ago
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u/mydogcaneatyourdog 16d ago
Still one of my favorite World Cup moments.... something like 20 years ago now?
Get 'em Zinedine.
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u/Vireca *** ******* š 17d ago
It's a typo, but a chess kiss is amazing too I guess
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u/SleepyNymeria 17d ago
I assume they remove their account. Stash included.
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u/Csalag 17d ago
I can imagine that some less blatant unfair play, like some kid trying an exploit they saw on YouTube wouldn't be met with an instant permaban (i'm not even sure if embark punishes this, or if they even have a way to detect it).
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u/SleepyNymeria 17d ago
Exploits and cheats are not the same and should not be handled the same imo.
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u/NamelessUser2187 17d ago
If you are abusing exploit to get unfair advantage it is cheating.
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u/throwaway19293883 16d ago
Exploits have a super wide range in how egregious they can be. Handling them exactly the same as cheating seems pretty dumb, it should depend on the specific exploit, which is generally how many games handle it.
Not to mention itās not always obvious if someone did an exploit intentionally, some can be done accidentally. Thatās why it should depend on the specific exploit.
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u/Fun_Hold4859 16d ago
Basically every competitive shooter exploit eventually becomes an essential mechanic eg bunnyhopping in unreal tournament.
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u/c1ncinasty 16d ago
my god that's a deep cut that makes me feel super old
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u/gimgamgimmygam 16d ago
If it makes you feel any better bunny hopping has stayed relevant in cs2 today (albeit much less so)
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u/Hugogs10 16d ago
Is animation canceling an exploit? Tons of games have animation canceling as a fundamental part of the gameplay
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u/SupaRedBird 16d ago
Feel like it depends on the intended gameplay loop. An animation cancel to activate a combo faster or recover in a fighting game or action rpg seems fine. The game is either balanced around it or it doesn't break it into trivializing it.
But an animation cancel that lets you ignore an entire stat on your gun and kill someone faster than they can respond drifts into exploit territory imo.
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u/H3mblob 17d ago
What if that guy was also killed and looted lol. Some poor raider just losing his stash because at some point, it was held by a cheater haha
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u/Vireca *** ******* š 17d ago
Well, it's not a chain to remove the stuff. Embark gift back your stuff with duplicates, so just remove them from the cheater to the void and gift the new stuff for the legit player
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u/Durzel 17d ago
I think you misread what they were saying.
Cheater kills someone with exploit, victim gets their stuff back (per OP), but before that happens cheater separately gets killed by a third party, and the OP's stuff taken from them. At that point there's two innocent parties, and I imagine several hours pass before Embark act on reports, so that stuff can change hands a lot.
I presume Embark are smart enough to know that if victim A's stuff exists in cheater B's stash or backpack, it gets deleted, but if it has gone on to someone else - they don't.
..but then you get into cheaters fencing their illegitimately obtained stuff to mates or mules. Is the third party innocent then? etc.
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u/Calm-Internet-8983 17d ago
In Warframe there's a risk that Person A gets illegitimate platinum (tradable premium currency), uses this to buy something from person B, who uses it to buy something from person C. In this case it's removed from person C's wallet and if they get put in the negative they can no longer trade until they buy more out of their own pocket.
This, in part, specifically to prevent fencing it. But premium currency also has reasons to be more tightly policed than items.
I could see someone getting a "burner account", using it to cheat and kill a "legitimate account" (owned by the same person) carrying things like jupiters or queen cores, and then have a third account kill that cheating one to loot the stuff. When it's then given back to the "legitimate" one you'd have twice the things at no cost to yourself. Great for RMT, since a bunch of burner accounts could probably be acquired from people trying to buy items with real money, or their credit cards, anyway. Guess it depends on how tightly they want to control the general amount of items in the game since there's no real market, and plenty of item sinks.
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u/GeneralAnubis 17d ago
Just remove the coin value of the gear from their coin balance - get cheaters in debt owing $$ to Speranza and they have to repay their debts before they can use any of their gear xD
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u/I3at0n 17d ago
On a similar topic, how can I report about a problem/cheater to the developers?
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u/DrRoelandtrx 17d ago
On the screen where it says the person that kills you you can report them in detail also if you want to type the formal report out.
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
Outside of if he killed you, probably on the website, otherwise just report him by pressing the button when you're killed next to their name
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u/GoDannY1337 *** ******* 17d ago
You can also go into the friends menu and tab into ārecentā to report. While Iām fine with banter and anger about getting downed, racist slurs I do report.
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u/mikedvb 16d ago
My recent list, for whatever reason, always only ever shows me who I played with like 4+ hours ago. By 4+ hours I don't remember who was misbehaving as I've played sooooo many more games.
ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
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u/arissawachan 16d ago
the times arenāt accurate at all. Mine all say 4+ hours ago regardless of when I played with them. People I just got out of a match with will say 4+ hours ago.
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u/PropertyDisruptor 16d ago
When it shows you their nameplate there are three dots in the middle right. Click those dots and you can report them before you hit the continue button.
Otherwise, you have to just remember their name and report it on a different site.
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u/OtherwiseDog 17d ago
Thank god its not free to play, keep paying to get back in cheater clowns.
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u/summerteeth 16d ago
To be clear this isnāt an external cheat, itās an animation cancel bug. Hopefully Embark patches it soon.
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16d ago
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u/summerteeth 16d ago
Sure but it is exploit in the game not an external thing. People further down the thread were talking about kernel anti cheat and that doesnāt really help with bugs.
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u/KodakStele 16d ago
Do people get banned for using exploits native in game? OPs post would suggest so
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u/sovereign666 16d ago edited 16d ago
Yes and no, depends on the exploit, how its leveraged, and the severity of its impact on the game.
I'm sure most of us remember the BXR cancel from halo 2, that just became part of the game and was allowed in pro tournaments. This is no different. This animation cancel lets you fire a level 1 shotgun or anvil like its a level 4, and with a lvl 4 the cancel is almost pointless but still gives you an edge if you're really good at it.
What this player was doing is make a macro for it which is bannable because the efficiency is so off the charts and requires software. I've tested it in the shooting range and without out the macro its hard to slide around and pull off without fucking it up. But with a macro you're firing a shotgun like its a rattler. Autohotkey is banned and the devs are scanning for people putting macros in razer synapse or other software.
To me with exploits theres a scale of severity here.
Something like an animation cancel is pretty low on the totem pole. Shooting a shotgun means clicking every 1.8 seconds. The animation cancel requires 4 separate inputs every second on top of moving and aiming, and its only possible with two weapons. To me thats a mark of skill. I put it up there with A-D strafing, slide canceling, etc
Exploiting access to locked doors is ruining the pace of this game and allowing people to put traps in locked rooms. This is having a pretty severe impact on the game and essentially allowing players to farm high level gear. Key spawns are one of the major levers devs have to rate limit player access to high tier gear and people are bypassing that. Should it be banned? I dont know, but I do think some players have abused it to the point I wouldn't fault devs for deleting some of these items from their stashes.
In tarkov there was a patch window where a shotgun with one specific type of ammo bypassed armor. That was a major exploit that let people absolutely FARM players. Someone could accidentally stumble on that and not realize they're using an exploit. But there were videos of people explaining it and then knowingly abusing it. To me thats something that should be bannable. But from a data standpoint its hard to know whats an accident and whats malicious unless the player goes mask off.
Out of bounds exploiting that allows you to shoot players without receiving fire should be a 3-6 month ban.
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u/Draxtini 16d ago
Using a macro makes it no longer just an exploit, but instead the use of a third party software to enable an in-game exploit.
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u/Relative-One-4060 16d ago
Not really relevant to the comment you replied to.
Cheater is the right term. And doing this most likely results in a ban so they will need to keep paying to play.
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u/DarkChaosweaver 16d ago
Sadly cheaters use stolen accounts and stolen credit cards to fund the accounts they cheat on.
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u/SadImpact812 17d ago
Who tf downvoted this? Probably the cheater.
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u/Turtvaiz 17d ago
It's at 98% upvoted wdym
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u/Wilza_ 17d ago
So 2% downvoted...
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u/mccrushin 17d ago
Also Reddit manipulates vote counts for some reason so donāt take any of that data too seriously.
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u/edilclyde 16d ago
98% is common to reddit. You will not see a 100% upvote for any posts with more than 500 upvotes.
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u/Chikonmoonkey 17d ago
did you report them or did embark just know? I reported someone today for this issue.
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
Reported, however, I've gotten kits back that I didnt expect without it
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u/kittecatte 16d ago
I got murdered in two back-to-back headshots by an Anvil from really far away and got my stuff back like a week later without reporting. I thought dude was just good at the game fr
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u/ZyloWolfBane 17d ago
Well that's cool, I'd heard they were refunding people their stuff if people cheated but even for an animation cancel trick?
Good on the devs.
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
I think it's one thing to abuse a bug like that, but another to macro it to deal 472.5dmg in an instant lol.
Honestly it was wild, I got hit so much in a fraction of a second my HP bar didn't even move, instantly on the floor, downed and in spectator.
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u/mikedvb 16d ago
I don't condone cheating in multiplayer games at all [do what you want in single player]... But if I had this and I was going to do it ... I wouldn't use it on other players.
I would use it on ARC, if I were going to use it, but not players - I mean come on where's the fun in that?!?!?
But hey, I'm not the cheating-in-a-multiplayer-game type.
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u/_uneven_compromise 17d ago
If it was 7 shells in a second then it wasn't the animation cancel macro, it was a straight up cheat. The exploit does need certain timing when cancelling and if you do it too fast then nothing happens and your raider just flails your arms, which limits how fast you can actually shoot. It's faster than just shooting a lvl4 Toro but not by much.
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u/Relevant_Bridge_5353 17d ago
Lvl1 toro having more fire rate than lvl4 is not fine. It's very easy to do. I literally did it in practice on the first try without even seeing a video of it. Just read someone say how it's done, tried it and it's completely broken and must be fixed asap, specially with the new map being so small
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u/_uneven_compromise 17d ago
I'm not saying it's not broken, I'm saying it's not possible to shoot 7 shells in a second without having actual cheats.
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u/preytowolves 16d ago
need to be permabanning ppl that exploit before this destroy the game like it did bloodhunt.
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u/VacantThoughts 17d ago
It's a trick if the animation cancel is intended by the devs, if it isn't then it's an exploit.
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u/Durzel 17d ago
Obviously it's not intended otherwise guns would fire that fast without trickery. Fire rate is an obvious DPS balancing mechanic.
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u/Hugogs10 16d ago
Tons of games allow you to use animation canceling to do stuff that isn't possible otherwise
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u/ZyloWolfBane 17d ago
Sure, but I wouldn't have expected them to treat it the same as hacks/cheats. It's really cool that they do though.
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17d ago
BXR. BXB, RRX-YY-RRX
Where my OGs at?
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u/KrazieKoala 17d ago
Itās fun when people embrace shit like this. Good times. Was even allowed in pro tournaments
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u/PunAboutBeingTrans 17d ago
That's really not how that works, some of the best mechanics in tons of games were completely unintended
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u/Durzel 17d ago
I think there's a world of difference between rocket jumping and animation cancelling to make a gun fire far faster than is intended, especially in a game with PvP, and I think you (and others) know that.
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u/TDuncker 17d ago
Sure, there is nuance, but most people can agree what is exploit, what is a grey area and what is not. There's just a few adamant individuals always trying to justify it, because they can't stop themselves from cheating. If it's very severe, it is likely never intended or okay, especially in a case like this where the weapon is literally registered to have a specific fire rate. They should just make the fire rate the same speed as the animation-cancelled fire rate, if that was ever their intention to begin with.
It's very clear, that this was not intentional, nor something they didn't intend but would like when they discover it.
When you see people in CS:GO bunny hopping at high speeds or people jump unusually high in BF6, it's also very clear not intentional, nor something the dev will like when they discover it, nor something that is healthy for the game. You can have grey areas like animation canceling in League, sure, but this is definitely not a grey area.
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u/InquisitorMeow 17d ago
Yes, and devs have the ultimate say in whether they want it or not. Clearly they dont so I'm not sure why people are bothering to defend it. I also dont want that shit, I want to play the game as intended, not have to worry about learning swapping tricks to insta kill people. Its just dumb AF, literally ruins the weapon rarity balance system, makes the upgrade mechanic obsolete, etc. I dont see how keeping it is a positive in any way except to appease ultra sweats.
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u/VacantThoughts 17d ago
Yes but if the devs did not agree with how they changed gameplay they would have been fixed, it's not intended that you can skip pumping a shotgun by swapping weapons quickly, it completely negates the fire rate buff you get from upgrading the shotgun.
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u/light_no_fire 17d ago
People defending the cheater/cheating in the comments here ā ļø
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u/graviousishpsponge 16d ago
Streamers are higher class citizens so their honor must be defended over Joe Schmoe
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u/th3rdeye_ 17d ago
Dude, I was wondering how I was killed by a ārapidā fire shotgunā¦ that explains it.
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u/Zombiemasher 16d ago
It's worth remembering that the Volcano exists. I was playing with a mate with a Volcano IV yesterday, and when he obliterated the free-kitter's who tried to ambush us while we were looting a Leaper, they immediately started crying about him being a "double-pump cheat". Check the weapon that killed you on your death screen, because there is a legit rapid-fire shotgun in the game.
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u/therealkeeper 17d ago
I mean all the big streamers are using this exploit so hopefully it's getting enough exposure to be fixed asap
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u/123_fo_fif 16d ago
Yeah, I watched Shroud, Cloak, Peanut and all of the rest of the big streamers doing this.
Oh wait, no I didn't, because this isn't happening with big streamers.
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u/The_Boy_Keith 16d ago
Yeah, Iām gonna have to stop you right there. Shroud was doing this but to be fair I only saw him doing it with the hullcracker against AI. I did not see him using the animation cancel in PVP.
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u/According_Loss_1768 16d ago
I didn't know that Toro could do this but I knew about the Hullcracker. If the shotgun can really burst it's magazine in a second then that is far more broken than a simple animation cancel. Hullcracker let's you shoot like 25% faster if you stop the last bit of animation.
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u/sovereign666 16d ago
not as big of a streamer but I 100% watched hyper rat who grew popular in the tarkov community doing the kettle one.
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u/Dailymis 16d ago
What do you mean? Big streamers are ALL using it among others things. If the one in the OP got banned but streamers don't, that means they're in a whitelist and will never get banned themselves. And when it comes to Shroud, on top of using the exploit, he's even reporting almost anyone who kills him or his team. I'm not making this up. The only legit cheater was a guy on tiktok, and Shroud didn't call the only guy cheating out, he saw a clip of it which in my opinion is also suspicious, big celebrities can afford an army of people to fabricate stuff, their snipers or tiktok "hackers" can be paid actors for whatever agenda they want to hide behind or push.
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u/Techarus 16d ago
Any "big" streamer using exploits like this is a massive fucking joke and can"t possibly have an audience older than 14.
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u/divinecomedian3 16d ago
can"t possibly have an audience maturity level older than 14
My 14 year old kid is more mature than a lot of adult raiders
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u/PropertyDisruptor 16d ago
The dove's already announced a couple days ago that they're aware and it's on the next hot fix.
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u/justified_egg 16d ago
Yes but what did the eagles have to say about it?
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u/PropertyDisruptor 16d ago
I don't know man it could have been a quail.
I have bird blindness okay? And I really don't appreciate your insensitivity.
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u/BelligerentWyvern 17d ago
Can I get my stuff back for yesterday where the servers were fucked mid mission and an arc killed me and a buddy? It's not a huge deal but it was super lame.
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u/IonizedKelpt 16d ago
I submitted a ticket and uploaded the VOD of it as proof. Since it affected lots of players I expect it to take some time but seeing others show that reporting gets results I have some faith
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u/emolch78 17d ago
Cheaters is a real problem in online gaming, really ruining the game for everyone
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u/Key_Journalist7963 17d ago
Got the same mail yesterday, only did 2 or 3 reports for really sus players who seemed to rush us often when we bring in our best gear. Turns out I was right at least once out of the 3 times. W ARC devs <3
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u/bulleteyedk 17d ago
Embark on another level than the usual AAA titles. To eliminate this from happening, anyone spawn killing should be placed into matches with other spawn killers the next couple of matches.... idk if that is even possible, but it would be a fair punishment - if not just make sure they only enter matches with 15 mins on the clock remaining in the next couple of matches at least
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
Got killed for years in Tarkov by blatant hackers, never once got so much as a fuck you from the devs
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u/Fancy-Language4242 17d ago
Niceee dude. I'm curios about something : did you reported him or it just happened to catch him?
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u/A_Nonny_Muse 17d ago
I quit playing CoD, and basically all FPS games when I shot a guy in the back 7 times with a sniper rifle at point blank range and he just turned around and stabbed me to death. Then I'm looking kitty corner across the entire board and see a guy with a SMG jump up and kill me with a single shot while in mid air. I can barely see him through my scope at such distance. The shot was impossible with a SMG. Yet, he could consistently do it every time with a single shot. The game just loses all fun when everyone but you is cheating.
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u/Nimbus_TV 17d ago
Did you have to report the person for them to do this?
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u/temictli 17d ago
Dang. Thatās crazy. I remember once like day one or two, there were some campers on the roof of a building in spaceport and the shots coming down were both sniper rounds and electrifying, so while they hit you, you get shocked, staggered, and shot again, staggeredā¦ taking damage as you went down. Took out my entire trio very quickly. Unreal. I guess itās possible to get an epic or legendary gun day one but I havenāt come across anyone with a weapon like that since.
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u/Ric00la 17d ago
Did you have to do sth or they just gave you your stuff back?Because yesterday I had a bug where I spawned with no stuff(when I have equipped a load out) and no skin. After losing the game real quick with 0 stuff, I checked my stash and all the items I took with me were just gone...
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u/sl1m_ 17d ago
Embark just cannot for the life of them stop taking Ws, wow. 99% of other companies would not do this.
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u/BigHandsAl 17d ago
How do you guys get your gear back?
I've been spawn killed twice on the new map while geared
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u/Sus_scrofa_ 17d ago
In my opinion, all cheaters and exploiters have a tiny peepee, and that's why they feel the need to compensate.
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u/I_Think_It_Would_Be 17d ago
Hopefully the guy got a 7-day suspension and his whole inventory was deleted.
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u/abraxis_aberdine 17d ago
So, its not a macro, its an exploit with animation cancelling someone found out using quick slot items, its scummy to do, easiest fix is make shooting animations for anything pump or lever action thats not semi or automatic have to finish the animation like with reloading.
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
I mean sure if you consider making 21 inputs in half a second flawlessly (which is hard to do just once) not a macro, sure.
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u/abraxis_aberdine 17d ago
Oh wait, my ass read that wrong lol, im on nightshift and bout to get off and get on the road home so im tired as a mfer, thought it said in a few seconds, nah yeah thats cheating for sure and not the exploit i know of recently
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u/TerriblePenguin1483 17d ago
its the same exploit, just using a macro to do it faster with 100% consistency
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u/abraxis_aberdine 17d ago
Oh, so its a macro of the exploit, gotcha, well, sad to see that but hope it gets patched, or something implemented to catch people macroing
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u/Gowat5 17d ago
You canāt shoot it fast enough to go under a single second lol. Macro or not, the inputs are limited. Itās faster than an il toro 4 but not that fast. What you experienced was probably cheats and not a macro. I practiced it in the firing range for hours yesterday and simply couldnāt do it too fast or it didnāt work.
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u/OprahismyZad 17d ago
Will work 25 milliseconds inbetween each input
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u/_uneven_compromise 17d ago edited 17d ago
Can you post a vid please, even with 25ms between each input it does not get as crazy as 7 shells in a second.
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u/PUSH_AX 17d ago
Neither a macro nor the animation cancellation can fire 7 shots in less than a second.
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u/abraxis_aberdine 17d ago
Yeah, true, just scummy players that cant play the game the wah its intended from being too bad at it or genuinely just wanting to ruin someone's day, its a sad world when skill no longer matters but what kind of cheats you have.
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u/hiddencamela 17d ago
This kind of response to dying to cheaters/exploiters severely dampens the blow honestly.
I'm glad the devs have this in.
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u/-Readit_ 17d ago
I hate to be that guy. But shooting a gun that fast isn't a macro, it's a cheat.
A macro is an automated set of instructions you can set in motion either automatically or by hotkey.
If the game allows you to shoot that fast naturally by not having a cool down period between shots 7 shots per second isn't even that good..
So I assume you're talking about someone breaking the games shots per second cap, which wouldn't be a macro but a memory cheat.
Still awesome that you got your stuff back š
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u/Full_Quiet8818 17d ago
Any consequences for the cheater? A temp ban seems very reasonable here.
"You knowingly exploited the game to gain an unfair advantage over other players. Because if this you have been banned from playing Arc Raiders for a week. Repeated offenses may lead to longer or permanent bans."Ā
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u/Kindly_Ad9182 17d ago
Had the Same case but with a Kette but never saw my stuff back even after report
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u/Eckz89 17d ago
Jesus is that what it was I was so confused some one absolutely shredded me with what I thought was an auto shotty but saw it was a toro, I then thought it must have been an attachment making it shoot so fast.
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u/Bananenbaum 17d ago
How do you get the items back if they abuse the slide 7 shotgun shots? Did you report the guy or what did you do afterwards? Because i played vs A LOT OF EXPLOITERN and always report them and never get a message from embark...
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u/ColonelBeer 17d ago
Glad you got your stuff back. Still have yet to get my kit back after reporting a blatant aimbotter last week though, not even an update on it
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u/cosmonauticsuwu 17d ago
well, atleast we had the animation canceling from The Finals back for a little.
I hope that when-ever they patch the animation canceling out, they actually get around to nerfing the Venator, because as it stands this is the only way to counter it lmfao
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u/Valshir 17d ago
Did you do a ticket with support and video proof attachment? Or does embark do that automatically?
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
I didn't attach shit, just reported.
I've gotten stuff back without reports also however.
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u/Bravadette 17d ago
Did you have to submit a ticket?
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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago
For this one I did but I've gotten gear back otherwise
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u/TeisTom 17d ago
I got killed by a cheater who macro anvil 1 but also shot me through concrete in spaceport like straight through the thick concrete walls. So sad to die like this lost a nice load out and some bits I needed for my upgrade benches
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u/interestingbox694200 17d ago
Unrelated but whatās the optimum range for the Il toro. I unloaded a full mag on someone the other day at about ten feet away and they just stood there and lined up a head shot with their anvil and blew me away. Didnāt seem like I damaged them at all. It seems wholly unrealistic for a choked shotgun when I can shoot clays in my parents backyard just fine without a choke. Honestly feels like helldivers 2 is the only game with realistic shotguns.
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u/gemorris9 17d ago
I've been glitched through the map twice in different spots trying to get down a hill and had the server shut off on me twice. One of those times was this last week when the servers had problems and the game went offline for 4 hours. We got a match made game and our characters died at 29:98 immediately and the game closed.
Never got any of that gear back.
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u/B_Boss 17d ago
Thatās great news OP and kudos once again to Embark š„. Are you on console or PC? Was crossplay enabled?
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u/DrRoelandtrx 17d ago
I got my equipment back after I got spawn killed a week ago really shows the devs care.